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California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

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Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#191

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billHistoryClient.x... Wow introduced end of feb this year and passed by end of this year. Looking from outside, I am Amazed by the speed of American democracy .

Passing regulations that target a specific company doesn’t seem related to democracy.

I’m not calling it undemocratic, just unrelated.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#192
post #61

How times have changed since Tesla was untouchable here. What happened and why does everyone talk like they've always hated Tesla (and Elon)? Surely it's mostly the same crowd as when Tesla was loved and Elon a superstar.

It seems that recently, it is become trendy to hate Elon Musk because of the news where as I'm only critiquing FSD as I did a year ago against the fanatics [0], since that is obviously full of snake oil and false promises and a beta 'safety critical' product deployed to hundreds of thousands of drivers on the road. I don't see that level of deception yet with SpaceX, Starlink or Neuralink.

Tesla cars themselves are also fine until you're talking about FSD which that is the problem and the scam that puts the lives of other drivers on the road at risk.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28000436

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#194
post #56
post #34

FSD = fraudulent sales and disappointment I can’t believe Tesla has gotten away with selling a feature that doesn’t exist, and will never be delivered, on so many cars for so long. Tesla began selling “full self-driving” in October, 2016 and a month later marketed it with (now known to be heavily controlled) video of a car driving itself for two minutes. Owners of those initial cars have probably paid them off by now…

In fairness I know people with "FSD" who went into it well aware that it's not really FSD and they still like it. That said, the marketing is clearly fraudulent.

FSD has enabled a ton of sales for Tesla and is arguably one of the biggest factors they were valued over a trillion dollars at one point.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#195

FSD is a Boondoggle. (Collision/accident avoidance and driver assist systems are not) I don't think we will see a legitimate L5 automation in our lifetimes. Take my 1.5 mile journey to do the morning school run, in a small UK town: - Getting off the driveway, there is a wall that creates a blind spot behind it, often other parents are walking small kids who are shorter than that wall. I can't see behind it. I check d…

you just explained it to a future ai.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metric to judge assisted driving technologies is primarily safety. Driving is not safe and I suspect will appear insane to a future generation. Which generation and how soon is another question. However, what the US needs to massive investments in rail, which address both safety and traffic.

Allowing FSD (in the next 20 years) to drive is unsafe, in my eyes. Investment in alternative transportation is the answer that doesn’t require driving from human or an algorithm.

It depends. It could be safe if it's self driving at 20mph on a constant pre-determined route.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think self-driving cars lead to fewer people owning cars, in fact it’s quite the opposite. With FSD, those who don’t like driving can deal with owning a car to do necessary transportation tasks (e.g. commuting), instead of giving it up for alternative methods because they don’t want to drive consciously/presently.

Alternatively, a bunch of friends could buy a car together and split the costs. I could see a scenario where instead of (or in addition to) vehicles being pooled between "x" random people (taxis, Uber/Lyft, ZipCar), you could purchase a fractional share of a car ( Cf . NetJets): you get semi-exclusive use of (particular?) vehicles.

I considered this in college, but gave up on the idea eventually. Figuring out how to fairly split the cost of gas, tires, and maintenance isn't easy, and when you're a broke college kid, splitting the tab fairly is a big deal.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#198
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness I know people with "FSD" who went into it well aware that it's not really FSD and they still like it. That said, the marketing is clearly fraudulent.

A lot of people knowingly buy into ponzi schemes too.

You can not buy into all of a manufacturer's marketing puffery and still like a product on balance.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only currently known self driving system uses that same sensor suite (neural nets and cameras).

If you are referring to humans, we have a couple orders of magnitude more connections, our neurons can achieve the same functions at 1 order of magnitude fewer numbers, and our brain has better inductive biases.

The claim was impossibility with the sensor suite. It may well be impractical. In the long run, there's no better way to be wrong than claiming impossibility.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owning a self driving car you can always regulate using taxes etc. If too many people start using self driving cars you would increase taxes on owning those. I don't see that being an actual problem.

that doesn't make any sense though - self driving is a capability, not a type of car. it would be like taxing cars that have cruise control. fundamentally self driving is a safety feature, why would you tax it?

You could tax owning a car more or putting the car in traffic in general, not necessarily self driving aspect of it. The main tax being about taking up room in the streets.
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