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California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

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Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#121
FSD is a Boondoggle. (Collision/accident avoidance and driver assist systems are not)

I don't think we will see a legitimate L5 automation in our lifetimes. Take my 1.5 mile journey to do the morning school run, in a small UK town:

- Getting off the driveway, there is a wall that creates a blind spot behind it, often other parents are walking small kids who are shorter than that wall. I can't see behind it. I check down the street as I get into the car, watch for subtle reflections, and aware that an adult further down the road may have a kid closer by on a small bike.

- Turning out the end of the road, there are parked cars blocking my view, it's safer to stop slightly further back as you can see slightly better.

- Another turning onto a busy road, at rush hour you can't get out without a considerate driver pausing and waving you out.

- Cross roads that is slightly out of alignment. The collision avoidance on my Audi often incorrectly triggers braking thinking that we are going to have a head on crash.

- Delivery vans blocking a lane, heavy on coming traffic. Considerate delivers on the other side flashing to let you around.

- A right hand turn (uk driving on left). It's better to pull slightly across the centre line letting people going straight on pass on the left, while you wait for a gap across the road. Plenty of space even for the largest trucks on the other side when you do this. Keeps traffic moving and everyone happy.

- Another right turn, no road markings and 4! different exits off the road in under 8m. Often blocked by cars so have to go further forward by a car length and double back.

- School car park! Children walking everywhere, large cars, teenagers who have just passed their driving test, parents dropping their kids out in the middle of a moving queue.

I just don't think it's possible for AI FSD to understand the nuance of all that.

(Yes, a 1.5 mile journey to school, we should be walking)

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#122
post #34

FSD = fraudulent sales and disappointment I can’t believe Tesla has gotten away with selling a feature that doesn’t exist, and will never be delivered, on so many cars for so long. Tesla began selling “full self-driving” in October, 2016 and a month later marketed it with (now known to be heavily controlled) video of a car driving itself for two minutes. Owners of those initial cars have probably paid them off by now…

It’s still up in all its fraudulent glory: https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-...

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#123

Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…

>what happens when everyone has a self driving car? All of those cars that are otherwise parked are now on the road. Traffic. Why? The number of trips is governed by the demand for trips, not the supply of cars. There isn't sufficient demand for trips to put all the cars on the road all the time, or else they already would be. The inelasticity of demand for trips is right there in the data you cite. >TNCs led to incr…

self driving cars would create demand as they would presumably be cheaper than equivalent rideshare.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume if there were more self-driving cars, fewer people would own cars. I think more people would take Ubers, Lyfts, and other ride sharing services. So I think that could reduce the need for parking and the amount of traffic just by increasing the utilization rate of cars.

Really? Do you find Uber and Lyft to be affordable or a financially sensible means of regular transportation?

Not paying a human to do the driving would make Uber/Lyft much cheaper, it's the dominant cost component of a ride if you do the math.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#125

Mainstream full self driving would just create massive traffic and gridlock - pointless in the end. The induced demand would outweigh the benefits. States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable. High frequency busses in the interim with rail transit is the real solution. Current self driving technology plus some key infrastructure changes with dedicated bus lanes and prio…

> States are better off acknowledging that sprawling car dependent cities are not sustainable.

I think this is the driving force behind the 15’ city concept.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#126
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point about induced demand. Though it can be easily fixed, particularly given the lack of user control over cars with FSD: For self driving cars all public roads are toll roads.

> Though it can be easily fixed, particularly given the lack of user control over cars with FSD: For self driving cars all public roads are toll roads. I disagree. Politically it would be hard to convince the majority of people (which would be the default state until some inversion) that a vehicle that is capable of self-driving should have to a surcharge per mile, given that it could also be driven manually. The onl…

Depends on the public's perception of self driving. If it's perceived as some tool of the rich making roads unusable for the rest it might not be so hard to make the case. We already have the situation where EV's aren't paying road taxes that everyone else pays.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#127
post #74
post #61

How times have changed since Tesla was untouchable here. What happened and why does everyone talk like they've always hated Tesla (and Elon)? Surely it's mostly the same crowd as when Tesla was loved and Elon a superstar.

Musk bought Twitter and fired 50% od the staff without Twitter crashing, which exposed how overstaffed and overpayed thise guys were

> which exposed how overstaffed and overpayed thise guys were

Systems don't fail overnight, and Twitter has definitely been exhibiting odd behaviors lately. It's just a bit early for a victory lap.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feature is impossible to implement with the sensor suite that comes with the car.

The only currently known self driving system uses that same sensor suite (neural nets and cameras).

Teslas don’t have LiDAR, which is used in all the best self driving systems.

Re: California passes law banning Tesla from calling software FSD

#130
post #102
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk bought Twitter and fired 50% od the staff without Twitter crashing, which exposed how overstaffed and overpayed thise guys were

Or just how well they designed it

Imagine thinking that firing 50% of the staff that built an enormously complicated piece of software, and having the service stay up and running means that the people who built it were overpaid or overstaffed.
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