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How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

nytimes.com

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Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#11

Post by Retric »

smeej wrote: post #7

How many people do you think the hospital can treat with the $3 billion (yes, with a B) that Langone helped raise? Or even just the $200M he personally donated? Which is better for the individual people who might (and I stress "might," since the hospital denies it) have to wait slightly longer on a day he needs care? To wait slightly longer there, or to wait slightly longer because they had to route to a different ho…

If you took longer to treat him after he raised that money, he can’t then go back in time and stop himself from raising that money. Presumably the argument should be around his future actions not his past ones.

As to the hospital, “The octogenarian had stomach pain, and Room 20 was kept empty for him, medical workers said.” “One doctor was surprised to find an orthopedic specialist in the room awaiting a senior hospital executive’s mother with hip pain.” This is a larger disruption than just the time he was physically being treated so presumably it’s more than just a one person delay.

Sure one possibility is they have more space than workforce so keeping the room empty has minimal downsides, but maintaining a separate space for VIP’s requires more overhead than an empty room. Essentially you need to decide if anyone showing up is a VIP and that slows everything down even when there aren’t VIPs. “Major trustee, please prioritize” is vastly more disruptive than just putting someone ahead of a line.

“It’s the fact that I am getting multiple calls, from multiple people, asking me to drop everything to treat a V.I.P.” If nothing else if the hospital wants to start “acting as businesses“ for VIPs then it should be giving up it’s non profit status and thus the tax deductions for the donors.

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#12

Post by mattzito »

_8j50 wrote: post #9
mattzito wrote: post #6

I used to live down the block from this hospital and used it frequently, and I feel like the article has it backwards. In one of the examples they cite, the person given favorable treatment raised $3 billion for the hospital - that does not seem unreasonable, to show a little gratitude to not just a major benefactor, but the person whose name is on the literal hospital. Another example is a sitting senator, who has b…

If it was in a non-medical setting I would agree but in medicine a patient's financial contribution or political status should not be a factor of consideration. even if they have been threatened they can hire protection after all and the government can add extra protection as needed. All patients should be safe and secure equally, women who are threatened by an abusive spouse or people injured/targeted by gang shooti…

People whose safety has been threatened or been injured by a spouse and are at risk absolutely will be placed in a room with security, what are you talking about?

The financial issue is more debatable, but as the article notes, there's already preference given to friends and family of doctors and nurses - so if they're "seriously educated", it doesn't seem to have stuck.

I'm not sure whether I'm more troubled by an informal policy of helping big donors the same way friends and family are or a formal policy that allows people to pay an annual fee for preferential treatment at the ER (which many hospitals have).

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#13

Post by bradleyjg »

smeej wrote: post #7

How many people do you think the hospital can treat with the $3 billion (yes, with a B) that Langone helped raise? Or even just the $200M he personally donated? Which is better for the individual people who might (and I stress "might," since the hospital denies it) have to wait slightly longer on a day he needs care? To wait slightly longer there, or to wait slightly longer because they had to route to a different ho…

The US government, which only provides treatment for its own employees, retirees (including veterans), the poor, and the old spends more per capita on healthcare than the UK government, which covers everyone. On top of that employers and employees spend trillions a year.

Why do we need billions in donations on top of that? Where is all the money going? Let’s ask NYU Langone executives that.

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#14

Post by jjulius »

_8j50 wrote: post #9
mattzito wrote: post #6

I used to live down the block from this hospital and used it frequently, and I feel like the article has it backwards. In one of the examples they cite, the person given favorable treatment raised $3 billion for the hospital - that does not seem unreasonable, to show a little gratitude to not just a major benefactor, but the person whose name is on the literal hospital. Another example is a sitting senator, who has b…

If it was in a non-medical setting I would agree but in medicine a patient's financial contribution or political status should not be a factor of consideration. even if they have been threatened they can hire protection after all and the government can add extra protection as needed. All patients should be safe and secure equally, women who are threatened by an abusive spouse or people injured/targeted by gang shooti…

>... women who are threatened by an abusive spouse or people injured/targeted by gang shootings don't get that treatment now do they?

Despite your snarky confidence at the end of that comment, this is incredibly untrue.

>Every doctor and nurse is seriously educated on this.

Yes, every doctor and nurse is seriously educated to protect abused spouses and people whose safety is at risk.

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#15

Post by jordansmithnz »

I’ve seen a similar thing happen at another well known NY hospital. My wife was waiting to give birth with all beds taken up. A couple walks in, very unhappy that there is a wait, and we exchanged some conversation with them. It was quite apparent they were from wealthy families. She had requested to be induced, after being a couple of days past her due date (extremely normal for a first pregnancy).

A nurse told us privately that we’re first on the list for a room as my wife was most in need of care; there was one becoming available in an hour or two. However, the other couple started complaining and calling family members. They were ushered off to a different waiting room. We waited 15 hours for a bed, and in the meantime heard someone give birth in the hallway.

A few days later we bumped into the same couple on the way out of the hospital. They’d been given a bed 12 hours before we eventually got one despite being there voluntarily.

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#16

Post by sokoloff »

_8j50 wrote: post #9
mattzito wrote: post #6

I used to live down the block from this hospital and used it frequently, and I feel like the article has it backwards. In one of the examples they cite, the person given favorable treatment raised $3 billion for the hospital - that does not seem unreasonable, to show a little gratitude to not just a major benefactor, but the person whose name is on the literal hospital. Another example is a sitting senator, who has b…

If it was in a non-medical setting I would agree but in medicine a patient's financial contribution or political status should not be a factor of consideration. even if they have been threatened they can hire protection after all and the government can add extra protection as needed. All patients should be safe and secure equally, women who are threatened by an abusive spouse or people injured/targeted by gang shooti…

If a person P has enabled the hospital to exist at all, it seems somewhat reasonable to serve them ahead of some set of people who would otherwise be served first (in the absence of P’s presence) but not served at all (in the absence of P’s existence/fund-raising).

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#17

Post by sokoloff »

Retric wrote: post #11
smeej wrote: post #7

How many people do you think the hospital can treat with the $3 billion (yes, with a B) that Langone helped raise? Or even just the $200M he personally donated? Which is better for the individual people who might (and I stress "might," since the hospital denies it) have to wait slightly longer on a day he needs care? To wait slightly longer there, or to wait slightly longer because they had to route to a different ho…

If you took longer to treat him after he raised that money, he can’t then go back in time and stop himself from raising that money. Presumably the argument should be around his future actions not his past ones. As to the hospital, “The octogenarian had stomach pain, and Room 20 was kept empty for him, medical workers said.” “One doctor was surprised to find an orthopedic specialist in the room awaiting a senior hospi…

It doesn’t just influence his future actions, but rather the future actions of all possible large donors.

Further, I can’t imagine that the premise of this prioritization did not come up in discussions with the development staff as they were finalizing the details of a 10-figure donation. In that regard, this policy probably did influence his past actions as well.

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#19

Post by jbandela1 »

jordansmithnz wrote: post #15

I’ve seen a similar thing happen at another well known NY hospital. My wife was waiting to give birth with all beds taken up. A couple walks in, very unhappy that there is a wait, and we exchanged some conversation with them. It was quite apparent they were from wealthy families. She had requested to be induced, after being a couple of days past her due date (extremely normal for a first pregnancy). A nurse told us p…

> they were there for a voluntary c-section.

This is the key to understanding this incident. A voluntary c-section is scheduled surgery. There is already an operating room reserved for it and staff. As with other scheduled surgeries, the patients and their families often have a pre-op waiting area where they wait for the surgery, so that there can be minimal delay getting them back to the operating room when it is ready for them.

My guess is that the determining factor in their shorter waiting was not their wealth, but rather the fact that their surgery was scheduled.

Source: Am a medical doctor trained in surgery.

Re: How NYU’s Emergency Room Favors the Rich

#20

Post by thatfrenchguy »

jordansmithnz wrote: post #15

I’ve seen a similar thing happen at another well known NY hospital. My wife was waiting to give birth with all beds taken up. A couple walks in, very unhappy that there is a wait, and we exchanged some conversation with them. It was quite apparent they were from wealthy families. She had requested to be induced, after being a couple of days past her due date (extremely normal for a first pregnancy). A nurse told us p…

Someone needs to make a name and shame website for this frankly.
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