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BBC Subtitle Guidelines

bbc.co.uk

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Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#81

Post by vonseel »

Man, a lot more goes into syncing the subtitles than I thought.

I recently tried using bazarr to auto-sync subtitles, thinking that for some reason the autosync would improve things, even though I usually didn't have any problems. Well, after that, all my subtitles were horribly out of sync. FFsubsync did not work as magically as I expected. I ended up just resetting them all to their original versions and disabling automatic subtitle synchronization, which I will only attempt to use if the subs are out of sync for some reason.

Note that I did not use ffsubsync directly, but IIRC that is what bazarr uses behind the scenes when "sync subtitles based on audio file instead of embedded subtitles" is checked.

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#82

Post by pedalpete »

I didn't think about subtitles as a default for people who are hard of hearing. I thought most people would have a device that turns the captions on and off.

The reason I even noticed this with BBC is because I was interviewed by Reuters a few years ago and the footage was spread through news throughout the world both online and on broadcast TV.

A friend from the UK sent me a screenshot where the BBC had captioned me. They were the only channel to do this (that I saw or heard about) I'm Canadian, and we tend to have one of the easiest to understand clearly spoken accents. So it surprised me that BBC went to the trouble of adding captions.

This makes sense now.

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#83

Post by DoctorOW »

zinekeller wrote: post #15
kvm000 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older “608”[1] system in North America was much simpler but the current “708”[2] standard does support specifying colours and fonts, but in my experience in the industry nobody uses those functions at all and just uses the 708 function to embed the older 608 payload data within the newer 708 data structure. In UK/Europe the older/simpler format would be OP-42/OP-47 Teletext[3] which can be used for captions inste…

Yeah, I know of the "708" captioning system but it is surprisingly underutilized* by broadcasters. I think that they don't see any use for e.g. color? * in terms of 708-only features, not on the pedantic "ATSC uses the 708 system"

708 is generally used for HD and 608 for SD. Until we rid the world of standard definition broadcasting, 608 is here to stay.

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#84

Post by jiggawatts »

sircastor wrote: post #27

I recently went through Netflix's subtitle guidelines when I was trying to figure out how to alter a subtitle file that I'd found that was pretty barebones. One of the interesting things about it was reading a rule, and then understanding the justification associated with the decision. Some of it is relatively arbitrary, but after you give it a bit of thought it makes sense.

None of it makes the slightest bit of sense.

Netflix subtitles are HDR maximum white. On a modern TV while watching dark scenes like in the House of Dragons, it's like trying to look into a cave while someone is shining an LED torch in your face.

Oh, and they won't let you chose arbitrary subtitle languages.

Someone at Netflix wrote the code -- it wasn't an accident! -- to deliberately restrict the available languages to English for the the Hearing Impaired plus four of the most common local languages.

Not speaking one of those four? Tough titties.

Would you like to see English subtitles without "Bang!", "Loud breathing", and "Somber music"?

Haha.. no.

Someone made decisions at Netflix that made sense to them, and no one else.

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#85

Post by bdowling »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #43
crazygringo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fascinating, to color-code by character. For (foreign-language) subtitles that seems distracting and unnecessary, since even if you don't see the character speaking, you can recognize their voice. But for closed-captioning (for the hard of hearing), it seems like it could add clarity. Yet in the past I've watched movies with CC without sound (like on a long-distance bus) and don't remember ever having a proble…

Why would it be distracting to know who’s line it is without color coding? Why would color be the thing that distracts you; wouldn’t the actual captions be far more distracting? As to why: it’s another datapoint to use to reconstruct what fully able people can do quickly. Sometimes captions aren’t well timed. Sometimes a lot of things happen very quickly and it’s hard to keep track. What if the camera isn’t on anyone…

Foreign language subtitling and captioning for the deaf are different because their audiences have different needs.

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#86

Post by mynameisvlad »

bdowling wrote: post #85
mynameisvlad wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be distracting to know who’s line it is without color coding? Why would color be the thing that distracts you; wouldn’t the actual captions be far more distracting? As to why: it’s another datapoint to use to reconstruct what fully able people can do quickly. Sometimes captions aren’t well timed. Sometimes a lot of things happen very quickly and it’s hard to keep track. What if the camera isn’t on anyone…

Foreign language subtitling and captioning for the deaf are different because their audiences have different needs.

I mean, no, it plainly isn’t.

You have a single set of guidelines (BBC doesn’t have two sets, nor does any other provider I know of) and a single set of subtitles as a result.

This is accessibility like anything else. High contrast can be used by many people on the ability spectrum for multiple various reasons. Subtitles are the same. Some use them because they’re deaf, some use them because they’re not confident enough in a language to use only one sensory input, some just like subtitles.

But since your claim is they’re separate, please show me exactly how they are separate. Show me the two separate style guides, show me providers differentiating between them and providing both captions and subtitles. Show me even the smallest sliver that backs up your claim. And, more importantly, show me the exact reasoning why color would work in one but not the other.

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#87

Post by TheHappyOddish »

greggarious wrote: post #74

Do they have a guideline for WHEN subtitles are used? I remember sitting in a hostel common room the day after Mark Duggan was murdered[1] and half joking " Are they giving that Scottish guy subtitles as a joke ?" and being told " This is a very serious situation ". The previous night, the " mates " had been " joshing " me about how much more violent America is... then their eyes went wide when I was like " Well, tha…

Are you ok?

Re: BBC Subtitle Guidelines

#88

Post by bdowling »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #86
bdowling wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign language subtitling and captioning for the deaf are different because their audiences have different needs.

I mean, no, it plainly isn’t. You have a single set of guidelines (BBC doesn’t have two sets, nor does any other provider I know of) and a single set of subtitles as a result. This is accessibility like anything else. High contrast can be used by many people on the ability spectrum for multiple various reasons. Subtitles are the same. Some use them because they’re deaf, some use them because they’re not confident eno…

Captions like “[ upbeat music ]” or “[ computer beeps ]” signal to deaf listeners information about the program that they cannot sense. There is no need for those when adding subtitles to a foreign-language program made for a hearing audience.

Similarly, subtitles are necessary for on-screen foreign language text (e.g., signs or documents), but not when the text is in the language that a deaf viewer understands. For example, you wouldn’t have an English subtitle for an on-screen sign in English, but you would for an on-screen sign in Chinese.

The BBC produces content exclusively (or nearly exclusively) in English, so these guidelines are surely directed towards captioning of English-language content for hearing-impaired, English-reading audiences.

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