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Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

nytimes.com

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Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#321

Post by eigenvalue »

mlla wrote: post #159
Aaronstotle wrote: post #105

What about the previous CEO of Alameda, Sam Trabucco? Caroline only took over recently, I haven't heard anything about his legal standing at this point.

I was wondering about Trabucco as well. His name is nowhere to be seen, but he was leading Alameda together with Caroline up until last summer. If SBF is also going for plea bargain, will various government institutions ask from him to get some dirt on Tether (and on Binance)? Might be that they are more interested in campaign financing.

I don't think SBF is going to be given the chance to plea down-- that's the whole point of getting Ellison and Wang to cooperated, to construct an ironclad case against SBF so that they don't need him to cooperate in any way, and can still likely convict him of enough crimes to put him in prison for 30+ years.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#322

Post by DrFunke »

ffssffss wrote: post #308
DrFunke wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's going to a prison that more resembles a country club (it has no fences or walls) There is no way she'll serve 9 years. She's appealing and the feds are extremely forgiving if you have great lawyers when it comes to white collar crime.

What would be the appropriate prison, one where she lives in depravation and is regularly assaulted by guards and other inmates? Our prison system is deeply unjust and more people should be going to her kind of prison rather than vice versa by my view.

I don't need your stump speech, thanks.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#323

Post by pseingatl »

She has to hope that Sam goes to trial. If he does, her testimony against him earns her that 5k1.1. motion to reduce sentence. If he doesn't, the government may or may not file the motion. And if there's no 5k, there's no Rule 35.

Despite the noise, it doesn't look like either Carol or SBF profited much from this scheme. At the end of the day, the "luxurious lifestyle" looks pretty spartan. Bernie funded years of living large off of his victims; not the case here.

The clawbacks and value of the FTX positions long term will be interesting.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#324

Post by dragonwriter »

nradov wrote: post #267
rosnd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's a lie which at times has real impact on trial outcomes. I wouldn't really put it in the same category.

Sentences for federal drug crimes are based on substance weight, not value.

> Sentences for federal drug crimes are based on substance weight, not value.

Depends on which federal drug crimes. The drug kingpin law is based on $, not weight.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#325

Post by ceejayoz »

greenyoda wrote: post #201
ceejayoz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means they get less prison time in exchange for helping prove the cases that give lots of prison time to others.

As the letter mentions, that's entirely up to the sentencing judge to decide. All the DOJ can do is to inform the judge that Ellison cooperated with them.

Prosecutors can't promise the judge will do anything; the judge doesn't work for them. However, judges have the same vested interest in honoring these deals as the prosecutors do; the prosecutors or the defendant have to really piss off the judge to have it disregarded entirely.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#326

Post by throwoutway »

landemva wrote: post #290
DebtDeflation wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that FTX is the extent of the DOJ and SEC investigations. SBF is going to be offered a deal - "Spend the rest of your life in prison or give us CZ/Binance and all the other big players and be out in 10". Remember, in addition to their chat group labeled "Wirefraud" they also had another one called "Exchange coordination" that the heads of other exchanges participated in. In addition to SBF, CZ (Binanc…

They will all get deals to avoid trial because nobody in power wants to dig into political donations or possibly even money laundering from US funds that went to Ukraine with some of it stolen and washed through FTX.

> money laundering from US funds that went to Ukraine with some of it stolen and washed through FTX.

Source? Isn’t this just a theory with no evidence?

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#327

Post by smabie »

xxr wrote: post #226

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough. [0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

I mean, realistically, making a buck or 2 a year isn't that much.

The real issue is that ftx and alameda could have been massively successful without any fraud.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#328

Post by 77pt77 »

jychang wrote: post #66
yewenjie wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those recordings publicly available or any source?

Not audio recordings, they were screenshots of a twitter conversation

My bad. I heard a reenactment.

The point stands. He said what he thought he needed to say and there were never any philanthropic objectives.

This is what I meant:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/3FuCAM_X4mREv2FJTnDv_QMmD6M=...

Or this:

https://youtu.be/qMKEvAui9SU?t=580

https://youtu.be/qMKEvAui9SU?t=860

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#329

Post by pyuser583 »

agotterer wrote: post #73
mikeyouse wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number does indeed get larger with bigger losses - but most of the charges also have statutory maximums (e.g. 20yrs for wire fraud) and they'll almost certainly be served concurrently. With this level of fraud a sentence approaching 10 years might be in play, but we'll have to see what the prosecutors say.

Elizabeth Holmes was sentenced to 11 years and she didn’t steal any money for personal gain. Madoff was sentenced to 150 years. Based on what we know so far about Caroline’s misuse (abuse) of funds and possible mass market manipulation all of which has resulted in billions of dollars in investor losses. 10 years in this case seems light, no?

Neither Madoff nor Holmes took deals.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#330

Post by dinkumthinkum »

smabie wrote: post #327
xxr wrote: post #226

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough. [0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

I mean, realistically, making a buck or 2 a year isn't that much. The real issue is that ftx and alameda could have been massively successful without any fraud.

You mean if they hadn’t gotten involved in cryptocurrency?
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