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India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

news.bbc.co.uk

61–68 of 68 posts

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#61
post #47
post #33

"The mission is expected to cost 3.8bn rupees (£45m; $78m)." Wow. That's amazingly cheap!

If I recall correctly, part of the way that NASA is setup is to be deliberately spread out across many congressional districts - making it hard to cut it's legs out from under it because it will effect jobs in too many congressman's districts. The downside to this is that it's also a great way of bringing lots of bullshit jobs into a district, and makes things VERY expensive. Not surprising that India can do this che…

It is still somewhat surprising that India can do this cheaply. After all they government is even more inefficient in general.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#62
post #24

still almost 100% techies in India never prefer or think about joining ISRO/DRDO which are world-class research organizations.

I wonder the same. I myself would so much love to be at ISRO/DRDO. They have tons of other facilities to match the high pay at software companies. I wish they had better ways of recruiting people with merit and passion. They are full of either Brahmins or SC/ST and people who are recruited through references.

> full of either Brahmins or SC/ST

These are contradictory. I think you need to pick one and make up your mind on who to blame.

By "full of brahmins" you are implying the that the forward class controls the power, has a strangle hold keeping down the lower castes. But if that were the case the SC/STs - the lowest of the low per the caste system - wouldn't be there. The presence of SC/STs implies that the system of reservation (whether you agree with it or not) is working and the forward class doesn't have a strangle hold (esp considering that OBCs also have reservations).

By "full of SC/ST" you are insinuating that the place is full of people who are there because of reservation (ie affirmative action) who don't really deserve to be there. But the presence of brahmins would imply that some people are actually getting in because of merit because the brahmins don't have any reservation whatsoever anywhere. So again, the system, albeit flawed, seems to be working.

If these places were somehow oscillating between power hungry brahmins trying to keep everybody else down and undeserving SC/STs I doubt that they would be a cohesive group doing good work which they seem to be.

Maybe you are just missing people of your background/religion/caste/language/area? I presume you are neither a Brahmin nor a SC/ST?

You also mentioned in your follow up post that these institution are in the south and casteism is always a problem there as if in comparison to the rest of the country. Casteism is a problem all over India and the following is not to justify it in any sense. But if anything I would say the south is probably better off than the rest of the country. The population of forward castes is below average overall so the lower castes have a much bigger voice democratically. This is also why TN had till very recently a 69% reservation and anti-reservation riots are a bigger deal in the North (remember the Mandal protests?) than in the south. Communal polarization too is in general higher in the North. Bangalore is usually considered a very cosmopolitan/diverse city and having lived there (and not being a native) I agree.

From a comparison of the different regions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_states_rankings ) the south overall seems to be doing better than the rest of India. The southern states are doing above average (and in many cases close to the top) economically, in literacy, infrastructure etc. The three top "technological centres" of India that one hears about mostly - Bangalore, Chennai and Hyderdabad - are also in the south. This inspite of the fact that India has mostly has Prime Ministers from the North (except for two - one of whom - P. V Narasimha Rao - is considered instrumental for our economic liberalization along with our current PM who was then the finance minister). So seems like these states have managed to have better governance. None of these are direct indications of casteism rates and I'm not trying to say that things are just fine in the south and there is no casteism. In general, it seems to me that economic growth/quality of life/good governance etc are indicators of reduced polarization. I don't have numbers to back that up, just an impression. My general impression is that while casteism definitely exists in the south, things are probably better there.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#63
post #10

[deleted]

Trying to work on reducing poverty is like trying to fight a war on terror.You will get no where with such an abstract and undefined cause. Rather Indians have chosen to concentrate and improve on concrete goals which I am sure will lead to elimination of poverty in time. Flying to the moon has tremendous symbolic value which will energise the raising economy. And hey it was done for just 80 million dollars, so its n…

Yes, India can't stop technological advancement because of the reason that a portion of its population lives below poverty line. All aspects (technology, standard of living and all other things) have to improve in parallel.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#64
post #62
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder the same. I myself would so much love to be at ISRO/DRDO. They have tons of other facilities to match the high pay at software companies. I wish they had better ways of recruiting people with merit and passion. They are full of either Brahmins or SC/ST and people who are recruited through references.

> full of either Brahmins or SC/ST These are contradictory. I think you need to pick one and make up your mind on who to blame. By "full of brahmins" you are implying the that the forward class controls the power, has a strangle hold keeping down the lower castes. But if that were the case the SC/STs - the lowest of the low per the caste system - wouldn't be there. The presence of SC/STs implies that the system of re…

I understand pretty well what I am bringing up here. If you did follow the saga during the protests against quota system - there are two broad categories GM & OBC. No government entity can deny admission to OBC. As for as GM goes - in some institutes where applicants have to go through interviews or they are recruited on a demand basis there is always a huge influence of clan - which makes the concentration of Brahmin clan.

Regarding distribution of castes in the entire population - it is of no interest. We are speaking only of the institutes - IISc, ISRO, DRDO and that it is skewed with Brahmins and SC/ST. Additionally, existence is not same as power/ influence. I can bet the environment looks better at any of the IITs or RECs. That should suffice as a response.

Please follow up offline (Again I think u joined yesterday just to fire this debate with no info on profile) if u do want to fire a debate or do some follow up or walk into IISC or ISRO. I think HN is not a right place.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#65
post #57
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> full of either Brahmins or SC/ST thank you for bringing your prejudices here. do you have any numbers to back that up? > people who are recruited through references this need not be a bad thing ,which is why most companies have a internal referral program.

I thought I shall mail you instead but couldn't find a contact or any useful information on your profile page. Please walk into IISc and you shall know. It is not merely about the number it is about the people who would control the system. I agree the divide based on caste is gradually lowering however we are still not there yet. It is a fact that all of these research institutes are concentrated in the south - IISc,…

you are bringing up two very different things here.

1) you said IISC was " full of either Brahmins or SC/ST" , and when asked to back it up , you're saying "Please walk into IISc and you shall know".

That means nothing. You can either prove it or you cant. It seems like you cant,so lets drop it.

2) "We definitely have a smart bunch of people in pure sciences than in business. Why do you think we cannot retain them here in India ?"

This is a very interesting question to me. And it seems like you are playing a very important part in retaining "smart" people by organizing/being involved in things like Barcamp.in etc.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#66
post #64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> full of either Brahmins or SC/ST These are contradictory. I think you need to pick one and make up your mind on who to blame. By "full of brahmins" you are implying the that the forward class controls the power, has a strangle hold keeping down the lower castes. But if that were the case the SC/STs - the lowest of the low per the caste system - wouldn't be there. The presence of SC/STs implies that the system of re…

I understand pretty well what I am bringing up here. If you did follow the saga during the protests against quota system - there are two broad categories GM & OBC. No government entity can deny admission to OBC. As for as GM goes - in some institutes where applicants have to go through interviews or they are recruited on a demand basis there is always a huge influence of clan - which makes the concentration of Brahmi…

> Again I think u joined yesterday just to fire this debate

There is a created field in the profile.

Edit: And yes, this should not have been raised here in the first place. This is not the forum for random prejudices.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#67
post #66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand pretty well what I am bringing up here. If you did follow the saga during the protests against quota system - there are two broad categories GM & OBC. No government entity can deny admission to OBC. As for as GM goes - in some institutes where applicants have to go through interviews or they are recruited on a demand basis there is always a huge influence of clan - which makes the concentration of Brahmi…

> Again I think u joined yesterday just to fire this debate There is a created field in the profile. Edit: And yes, this should not have been raised here in the first place. This is not the forum for random prejudices.

I think you are too coward to even expose your identity and falsely blaming this as a random prejudice when you are incompetent of understanding what is written.

> this should not have been raised here in the first place. I am not a coward and I expressed what I strongly feel about and have seen first hand. I am not taking it back nor am I continuing this wasteful discussion trying to get some sense into people like you and below commenter (I guess its the same person). Existence of you folks is what forces the brain drain.

There is no point debating with you. Closed.

Re: India successfully launches first mission to the Moon

#68
post #67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again I think u joined yesterday just to fire this debate There is a created field in the profile. Edit: And yes, this should not have been raised here in the first place. This is not the forum for random prejudices.

I think you are too coward to even expose your identity and falsely blaming this as a random prejudice when you are incompetent of understanding what is written. > this should not have been raised here in the first place. I am not a coward and I expressed what I strongly feel about and have seen first hand. I am not taking it back nor am I continuing this wasteful discussion trying to get some sense into people like…

> I think you are too coward to even expose your identity

Ah, yes. Rational arguments. Nice.

> .. below commenter (I guess its the same person)

and conspiracy theories to boot. I don't know who the "below commenter" you are referring to is, but as I mentioned, there is a created field in the profile so you can see if my profile was created yesterday just to bother you. You ignored that. But then I guess that would of course be dealing with facts.

The point of my original post was to give you something to think about on two fronts : "full of either brahmins or SC/ST" and regarding the south that "casteism has always been a problem here". The population talk was regarding the second point (as I also mentioned in the original post). But again, you seem to have missed that.

> There is no point debating with you. Closed.

Thanks and consider the favour returned.

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