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Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#51
post #39

Goodbye Hacker News. A bunch of extremely well-paid SWEs complain about donating two bucks to a completely free encyclopedia representing hundreds of thousands of volunteer human hours of effort; replacing (sorry, “disrupting”) extremely expensive Britannica books means to me the orange site has lost it’s way.

The pushback is very present amongst Wikipedians editors too, you know, the people actually writing the encyclopedia. But I guess software engineers on hacker news know better and can just handwave the issue because it makes them feel better to think that their donation is useful.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#52
Fundraising is unfortunately something where the commons has been deeply polluted. My Congressmembers regularly send me emails which are outright lies, purporting to be a "membership renewal" or a "special survey" or an "urgent petition" until you click in and see they want money. So when I see something like the Wikipedia banners, which are restricted to their own site and don't explicitly say anything untrue, it's hard to get worked up over it.

It's worth acknowledging that they've been willing to moderate their tone in response to things that seem overly misleading (https://slate.com/technology/2022/12/wikipedia-wikimedia-fou...). If you could sit down with Jimmy Wales and the WMF bosses in private, I suspect they'd tell you that they don't want to trick anyone, but that you have to do some kind of attention-grabbing stunt to effectively fundraise these days. And really, is that wrong?

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#53
post #39

Goodbye Hacker News. A bunch of extremely well-paid SWEs complain about donating two bucks to a completely free encyclopedia representing hundreds of thousands of volunteer human hours of effort; replacing (sorry, “disrupting”) extremely expensive Britannica books means to me the orange site has lost it’s way.

How long have you been reading HN? What makes you think everyone here is an "extremely well-paid SWE"? Have you not read the threads such as

"Ask HN: How to find work while homeless?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22442454

This is a discussion forum, not a blog.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#54
post #39

Goodbye Hacker News. A bunch of extremely well-paid SWEs complain about donating two bucks to a completely free encyclopedia representing hundreds of thousands of volunteer human hours of effort; replacing (sorry, “disrupting”) extremely expensive Britannica books means to me the orange site has lost it’s way.

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#56
post #31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on that, do you have any sources?

See discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33174533

All that's said there is "they have money and still ask for money". That's what I do at my job, too.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#57
post #43
post #39

Goodbye Hacker News. A bunch of extremely well-paid SWEs complain about donating two bucks to a completely free encyclopedia representing hundreds of thousands of volunteer human hours of effort; replacing (sorry, “disrupting”) extremely expensive Britannica books means to me the orange site has lost it’s way.

An item hitting the front page doesn't mean anything like "most people here agree with the premise" . Just that they find the content potentially interesting to see, discuss, debate, etc.

That would hold merit if I wouldn’t regularly see people’s insightful comments sent deep into greyed-out oblivion because they went against the grain of the echo chamber.

Be it here, on Reddit, or any site with a content voting system, the vote buttons always end up being ‘this is what I could have said’ and ‘get bent’ buttons.

Funnily enough, imageboards seem to have it figured out: post something interesting, your thread or comment gets engaged. Post drivel - everyone ignores you. Meritocracy.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#59
post #39

Goodbye Hacker News. A bunch of extremely well-paid SWEs complain about donating two bucks to a completely free encyclopedia representing hundreds of thousands of volunteer human hours of effort; replacing (sorry, “disrupting”) extremely expensive Britannica books means to me the orange site has lost it’s way.

Goodbye :wave:

Re: Ask HN: Why is the Wikipedia Foundation's begging tolerated?

#60
The Foundation is my client, but these views are only my own:

This is not to say there's no excess, or that resources couldn't be allocated internally more effectively - I'm not going to put up some kind of strawman - but:

1. I took a 20% pay cut so that I could do more work for the Foundation. Worth it.

2. Posts that say "Wikipedia only has [x] more articles but budget has gone up [y]" are beyond stupid. Any idea how many projects besides Wikipedia are run by WMF - for instance, ever heard of Wikimedia Commons? Any idea how litigious and heavily-regulated the world has got, and how much effort has to be poured into softening some of the emerging laws, mounting judicial challenges against the rest, etc? Any idea how much funding every usergroup and chapter (sometimes more than one per country, e.g. in Spain) is asking for? Any idea how much effort is put into developing features that encourage new people to start editing, not just consuming? Any idea how expensive it is to support and facilitate the big "Movement" discussions (aimed at decentralising the movement!) and the User Code of Conduct discussions? How hard it is to have a viable Trust & Safety team for so many projects, 300+ languages, and people from all over the world to support?

3. After a big outcry about the banners a month ago (that was a long time coming, no denial), the drafting and design of the banners is much softer this year than the last. And guess what, they're much less effective, and now projects are being cancelled, staff departures aren't being backfilled, and jobs are at stake. That may be worth it, but let's at least be honest about the downsides.

Accountability and criticism are fine - but when absolutely no intellectual effort is put into keeping that criticism balanced and on-target, then all you've ended up doing is making people who work here, rather than raking in the big bucks working for Big Tech, feel shitty. And guess what: you lose extra marks for bringing up cancer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has...) when many people working here will be dealing with actual cancer, either personally or among their friends or family, at the moment.

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