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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#381

A bit of meta commentary but I’ve noticed in recent years a phenomenon where people will adamantly defend something because they associate attacking it with their political opponents . You see this very clearly in the conservative response to US support of Ukraine. You’d expect to see more conservative support for simultaneously defending a free people while also destroying a primary adversary for pennies on the doll…

Perhaps, but these two things are very very different, and while I think your observation is apt it only exists at the margins (i.e. on twitter). You can steelman an argument for supporting Ukraine in their war that goes something like "bleeding Russia dry means they won't be able to enter into the Pacific as a co-belligerent with China in a potential WWIII scenario". Similarly, you can steelman an argument for banni…

I think the steelman for supporting Ukraine in the war is stronger than that.

1. It provides security for Europe, which benefits us.

2. Our military expenditures are massive in general, we have sent roughly $50B in aid thus far which is around 3% of our 2022 DoD budget. If you consider the military a tool to destroy specific enemies, of which there are two main candidates, spending a marginal 3% (or more!) to destroy one of them is incredibly cheap. Personally I would invest 3-5x as much without blinking. The returns look great.

3. War is bad, starting wars is bad, and invading smaller neighbors to set up puppet regimes or annex them is bad. The best way to prevent this in general is to make starting wars look like an extremely bad idea which will definitely destroy your country.

4. Showing that we will doggedly defend countries to which we owe no special allegiance is an extremely good deterrent and raises the expected costs of invading (for example) Taiwan. China might see a more limited investment in the defense of Ukraine and say “ok, well Russia couldn’t afford to match that but I can. Expensive but on the table” whereas open ended support till Russia collapses is substantially scarier.

And this is only reasoning from an America-first perspective. Considering only how these are good for us, I would expect conservative support to be more full-throated. That said, it is true that mainstream conservatives are definitely much more normal on this front.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#382

> General counsel Erich Andersen wrote to staff that a “misguided plan was developed and carried out by a few individuals within the Internal Audit department this past summer”, adding that those involved “misused their authority to obtain access to TikTok user data” in violation of its code of conduct. Ah yes, straight from the playbook: management gets caught being mischievous and throws a few underlings under the…

They could be agents for the communist party operating without the knowledge of the regular management.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#383

We really really need to shut this down as a national security issue. If they took it off Apple and Google Play stores it would reduce usage immediately by at least 80-90% along with having apple/android send out blocks like they can for malware (which it is). It's hard to believe Biden didn't continue Trump's attempt to shut it down.

What about the First Amendment?

If you mean ‘what about freedom of speech’ - ie the moral value rather than the US law - tiktok’s not being banned for speech but for stealing user data.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>which is why you vote regularly to ensure that your rights are represented and those agencies aren't able to abuse their power That never works out in practice as the administrative state (which includes the FBI and CIA) are soo far removed from representative government they are basically unaccountable at this point, that is with out even getting into the idea that 1 vote in a nation of 350 million plus holds no r…

> "Democracy" is more or less an delusion those in power perpetuate to ensure the cattle think they have a choice I had a much larger post, but I'm going to only respond to this one now, because it sums up basically off the disagreements and no further discussion is going to resolve anything. I don't agree with this sort of cynicism at all, and I very much do believe that while it is very flawed, democracy ultimately…

That kind of cynicism is also a seedbed of authoritarianism, ironically.

It's rocket fuel for demagogues, who swoop in and exploit it and turbocharge it even more (see Trump). They say the old system isn't working, they promise to disrupt it. The old rules aren't working anymore, give me all the power, I alone can fix it.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#385
post #353
post #351

So if I'm reading this right, it was wrong only because they were spying on Americans. Spying on others is apparently still ok.

You're not reading it right. The FT journalist in this story is not American. But, as a general rule, nations seek to protect their own citizens.

[dead]

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#386
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After wikileaks/Snowden this is just not news anymore. I really fail to see what's new. What am I missing?

There is a difference between what people know because it is pushed out to them vs. what someone can deduce by careful research and logic. Something like Wikileaks/Snowden got the "they're spying on everyone!" part into the public consciousness. The Twitter files is pushing out some slightly different nuances around what the current practice is. Plus the political implications. People are annoyingly evidence based. T…

> There is a difference between what people know because it is pushed out to them vs. what someone can deduce by careful research and logic.

Indeed. It's the difference between public knowledge and common knowledge. Matters which are public knowledge may not be common knowledge, if they've been swept under the rug or generally forgotten.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#387
post #357

One of the more unexpected parts of the Twitter files (part 7, in fact) is it reveals some well developed linkages between the US intelligence services and media companies. If the US is blurring the corporate-government boundaries, the Chinese are certainly much more aggressive in their activities. And all these agencies run extra-legal kidnapping operations. I'm rare in that although I don't like it corporate spying…

After wikileaks/Snowden this is just not news anymore. I really fail to see what's new. What am I missing?

Are you implying zero information has been revealed?

We knew the US intelligence services had tweaked the elections of other countries. We didn't know US intelligence services had tweaked the last election in the US.

Given how close elections are in US, it's not hard to imagine US intelligence services made a difference.

So that's what's new.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#388
post #352

We really really need to shut this down as a national security issue. If they took it off Apple and Google Play stores it would reduce usage immediately by at least 80-90% along with having apple/android send out blocks like they can for malware (which it is). It's hard to believe Biden didn't continue Trump's attempt to shut it down.

>Trump's attempt to shut it down. Believe it or not, Trump’s policy was more nuanced than what are getting now. They were in the process of forcing a sale of the company to a US owner.

I think you mean that you saw Trump's solution as more effective. It wasn't more nuanced.

Trump's solution involved a one off payoff for a supporter (Oracle), whereas the current admin is at least trying to develop a policy framework and solve the problem with less corruption and arbitrary use of power. The latter is much more work but - to bring it back to the issue - is more nuanced.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#389

> General counsel Erich Andersen wrote to staff that a “misguided plan was developed and carried out by a few individuals within the Internal Audit department this past summer”, adding that those involved “misused their authority to obtain access to TikTok user data” in violation of its code of conduct. Ah yes, straight from the playbook: management gets caught being mischievous and throws a few underlings under the…

They could be agents for the communist party operating without the knowledge of the regular management.

The management in every Chinese company absolutely knows which employees are working primarily for the Party. They were not hired by accident.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#390

> General counsel Erich Andersen wrote to staff that a “misguided plan was developed and carried out by a few individuals within the Internal Audit department this past summer”, adding that those involved “misused their authority to obtain access to TikTok user data” in violation of its code of conduct. Ah yes, straight from the playbook: management gets caught being mischievous and throws a few underlings under the…

They could be agents for the communist party operating without the knowledge of the regular management.

Definitely possible. But it's also possible that the executives are such agents themselves, and are simply lying.
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