I am done. I give up • Hacker News Board

Re: I am done. I give up

#351

Post by sph » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

IronIvan wrote: post #300

xvector wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos would not have kept Amazon in the US if it adopted Nordic welfare levels of taxation. The fact of the matter is that the EU has a staggeringly low output when it comes to tech innovation compared to the US. Their policies and regulations shape this.

Can confirm. Lived a very frugal early retirement lifestyle in Austria because it was practically impossible to build wealth (high taxes, comparatively very low tech salaries, little entrepreneurial support/incentives). Moving to the US I was able to 5-6x my income (from what I could have realistically made) , while reducing my tax burden by 15 percentage points, and so I've been happily living a workaholics' lifesty…

Not all of Europe runs on a 50% tax rate though. My tax rate as company director in the United Kingdom is somewhere around 25%, and I can afford higher salaries than the rest of Europe while still enjoying the basic safety net of public health care.

But I'm originally from Italy, and the tax rate is exorbitant down there as well, with ridiculously low salaries.

You do you, but there is more to life than gross income from your employer. This is why I'd rather stay in this continent.

Re: I am done. I give up

#352

Post by washmyelbows » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

IronIvan wrote: post #300

xvector wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos would not have kept Amazon in the US if it adopted Nordic welfare levels of taxation. The fact of the matter is that the EU has a staggeringly low output when it comes to tech innovation compared to the US. Their policies and regulations shape this.

Can confirm. Lived a very frugal early retirement lifestyle in Austria because it was practically impossible to build wealth (high taxes, comparatively very low tech salaries, little entrepreneurial support/incentives). Moving to the US I was able to 5-6x my income (from what I could have realistically made) , while reducing my tax burden by 15 percentage points, and so I've been happily living a workaholics' lifesty…

I'll be lucky if I can afford a single family home after 20 years of software engineering in the US. halfway there now, we'll see. Moving to a senior position has helped but I feel like a lot of people forget that the compensation in SV is not normal in other places.

Re: I am done. I give up

#353

Post by noduerme » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

jen20 wrote: post #283

noduerme wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average American watches 4 hours a day of TV. Most startup founders work other jobs while building their project - if they can afford to fail, it's because they have that other job. But they're spending those four hours (and many, many more) on labors of love. Sure, there are some trustfund kids who get to play founder and have the odds stacked in their favor, but that's neither the soul nor the joy of starting y…

> if they can afford to fail, it's because they have that other job. Citation needed. I’m quite sure that working a second job does not go down well with VCs. In most cases the networking required and high risk of failure is only achievable through having well-off parents.

Citation: I started two failed startups while working day jobs... and could afford for them to fail because I had solid work, despite the thousands of hours I had invested in them over years.

You can't really tell if something's possible if you begin by simply complaining it's impossible. Is the world rigged toward helping rich kids? Sure. But fools and their fortune are quickly separated. Using inequity as a basis for complaining and giving up before even trying is really the fastest road to bitterness... and it's not even a fair or knowledgeable take, since it doesn't come from true personal experience or personally failed attempts which are, if nothing else, highly educational.

Re: I am done. I give up

#354

Post by rpadovani » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:13 PM UTC

IronIvan wrote: post #300

xvector wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos would not have kept Amazon in the US if it adopted Nordic welfare levels of taxation. The fact of the matter is that the EU has a staggeringly low output when it comes to tech innovation compared to the US. Their policies and regulations shape this.

Can confirm. Lived a very frugal early retirement lifestyle in Austria because it was practically impossible to build wealth (high taxes, comparatively very low tech salaries, little entrepreneurial support/incentives). Moving to the US I was able to 5-6x my income (from what I could have realistically made) , while reducing my tax burden by 15 percentage points, and so I've been happily living a workaholics' lifesty…

> (work for almost 2 decades as an engineer just so you can afford the average one family home - what a joke!)

I really don't understand this take. Why so many engineers feel entitled to have more than the average working Joe? If you are employed, our work is not risky, doesn't consume all your energy or your time, and so on.

I fully understand the _economics_ behind our salaries, but I am more than happy to give 45% of it to the society as a whole, so also who cannot afford the economy of scale (e.g., nurses, teachers), can still have a decent life.

I really cannot grasp the individualism about "I know how to write code, I deserve a better life than 95% of the population".

Re: I am done. I give up

#355

Post by tqwhite » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:13 PM UTC

I am old. I have had two companies and about half my adult life self-employed. I have never gotten rich. I had fun for part of the time in each company or situation. Less fun for the rest. Here is my advice:

Don't every do anything that is not fun. Don't ever do anything you cannot afford to do.

This means do not waste your very, very short life on ambition for its own sake. Only start a company if it is fun to be doing it.

Don't gamble your economic future. You have to pay for things. Failing to save for your old age is as irresponsible as not saving money for your kid's education or making your spouse pay all the bills.

When I recognized that my fantasy of self-employment and riches was never going to be real, I got a job. It felt like a vacation. Someone else figured out what to do. I just solved the problem. Direct payroll deposit is like magic. You wake up one day and your bank account is full again.

Putting money in savings is like an orgasm. You can do it again and again and it always feels good.

Americans have this insane idea that work and business are so so so important. Like this kid, I have been through it. Unlike him, for decades. I am telling you: Capitalism is very often toxic. Don't do it unless you are doing something fun and can afford the price while meeting your other responsibilities. Don't do it at the cost of your real life, friends, spouse, kids, hobbies, books.

You only live once. Business is absolutely not the right priority. Nobody old wishes they had worked more.

Re: I am done. I give up

#356

Post by defrost » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #340

jliptzin wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their tax rates are only a few percentage points different from ours. I think the difference is that we funnel 20% of it to the military (2% for Norway) and their tax code probably has fewer loopholes for the rich to exploit.

Their total tax burdens are much higher than US citizens' tax burdens unless you're making 7 figures of W-2 income. The top marginal tax rate kicks in an order of magnitude lower in those countries, and hits most of the middle class. In the US, it hits very few people. Also, the military is 20% of the discretionary budget, but 10% or less of the total budget.

For a full picture factor in outgoings for world class health and education per person (and other benefits that are free | much cheaper than US); these are very low cost for individuals and offset higher taxes by offering better value for money.

Re: I am done. I give up

#357

Post by uffndnjfncnc » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #274

throwawaybbq1 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is who pays for the welfare state. Finland got a lot of its wealth through off sea oil I think. Not easy to replicate in almost every part of the world. If you make the population pay for the welfare state, you are essentially robbing Peter to pay Paul. The people you rob (the ones paying the bulk of taxes) have a lower incentive to produce. This is one reason the energy Windfall taxes being proposed everyw…

1. Finland doesn't have oil, you're mistaking it for Norway. 2. Progressive taxation is the basis on which the best places to live were built. This is an empirical observation, make of that what you will, but it's strange to give your gut feelings of "basic economics / human nature" more weight than objective reality. 3. Why do is the word "rob" applied to taxation? Without the state to at least enforce laws, enforce…

You should visit Tokyo. Japan spends very low on welfare.

Re: I am done. I give up

#358

Post by Mezzie » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #77

saalweachter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an engineer at a successful startup. We grew, we went bankrupt, we laid off most the company, the founders kicked in enough to keep us going and we restructured to give the remaining people larger shares. We became profitable and finally sold to another company. My payday was about $70k, which was a nice bonus, I was happy to get it. I moved on to big tech. The company withered away, the company that bought it…

That sucks. I know quite a few stories like that. I'm more active as an investor these days than as an entrepreneur, the projects I still run are more for fun than for income (or even potential income) and I can't tell you how happy I am that that pressure has abated somewhat. It's annoying that even the successes tend to screw over the employees and more often than not the founders as well. Typical dilution by the t…

> no outsider is going to jump in giving away their product just to grow market share

I wonder how much innovation is being stifled by this practice. I know I have at least one very viable idea (I've shopped it around) that could result in substantial improvement to the overall Internet experience, and I'm doing nothing with it because the minute I make it available, a Big Tech company will either steal it, try to buy me out (and I don't like them so my answer will be no) and then copy/reverse engineer what I've done. So I've opted to spend my time/energy on something else.

Basically what's the opportunity cost of these uncompetitive practices for the industry and field of study as a whole?

Re: I am done. I give up

#359

Post by nmfisher » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

kybernetyk wrote: post #208

jlangenauer wrote: post #5

Why do "indiehackers" want attention from and create products for other "indiehackers"? As a group they seem the people with the least amount of money to spend on products, and are some of the most cheapskate people on the planet. Here's some advice: if you want to make money selling a software product, sell to people who are able and willing to spend money on it.

This. It's the "developers trying to sell products to other developers" conundrum. You know the development workflow. You came up with a great tool to increase productivity for developers. You set a low price of $50. And yet no one is going to buy it because "lol I could do this in a weekend". Developers are cheap bastards (I'm still fighting over whether I should shell our $99 for Panic's Nova editor or not - even t…

I actually totally disagree with this. Developer tools are probably one of the easier segments to tackle because technical people 1) like trying new things and 2) often have company credit cards that don’t have to justify expenses.

Re: I am done. I give up

#360

Post by morjom » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

IronIvan wrote: post #300

xvector wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bezos would not have kept Amazon in the US if it adopted Nordic welfare levels of taxation. The fact of the matter is that the EU has a staggeringly low output when it comes to tech innovation compared to the US. Their policies and regulations shape this.

Can confirm. Lived a very frugal early retirement lifestyle in Austria because it was practically impossible to build wealth (high taxes, comparatively very low tech salaries, little entrepreneurial support/incentives). Moving to the US I was able to 5-6x my income (from what I could have realistically made) , while reducing my tax burden by 15 percentage points, and so I've been happily living a workaholics' lifesty…

>You'd have to be an idiot to want to work hard given how raw of a deal you are getting

Yeah sorry I can't fly to another country because I'm not satisfied with -only- a family home.