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I am done. I give up

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: I am done. I give up

#71

Post by hef19898 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #39
jurmous wrote: post #10

A big fact of the entrepreneur world is that it is hugely based on luck. Luck of finding the right idea, the right market, the right timing, the right connections, the right customers, the right employees, the right financing. The basic fact is that most startups and most entrepreneurial dreams fail or get consumed by another for their talent/clients. And as an entrepreneur you fight against all odds. Most will fail…

> A big fact of the entrepreneur world is that it is hugely based on luck. And for anything with bigger ambitions than a lifestyle business, don’t forget connections. Most founders are still men from Ivies or Stanford. Just look at the “PayPal mafia” to see how inbred tech investing can be. Not that most entrepreneurs need or should expect VC funding, but this is HN, run by a VC. You can totally run a business and be…

Personally, I have a problem with the term lifestyle business. Without plenty of VC money, building and running a business is hard. VC backed up start-ups fit the "lifestyle" business definition a lot better, IMHO. One can play CxO, or chief engineer or whatever fancy title one wants to hold without putting the effort and years in, without actually worrying about those nasty things like profitability, cash flow or actual products. And, with the right connections, if one start-up fails one can still just start a new one.

Re: I am done. I give up

#72

Post by AstixAndBelix »

This question might be off taste, but.... what are your actual skills? what can you actually do in your life? can you program? can you reverse engineer? can you design? can you market? Have you ever had a salaried job where you have matured a knowledge about how a product is planned, designed, produced and shipped?

If you exit college with not ulterior education, building a successful business is extremely unlikely. You first have to at least know how stuff works in the job and products market and you have to study a lot about tech entrepenourship to avoid all the pitfalls and dumb errors that many inexperienced people make.

Re: I am done. I give up

#73

Post by hgsgm »

tmilard wrote: post #67

In a way the tremendous success of YC drove this false belief that : - Creating a startup is fun & rather EASY success. It's not. It's never been. It will never be. I am fifty three: I now know. I also was a teenager then a young adult, influenced by "entrepreneurs" of their time. Entrepreneurs dream is RISKY. Start-up's future is 90% of the time doomed. Worse : Chance plays a big role.

[dead]

Re: I am done. I give up

#74

Post by ralphb »

> It's also the constant stream of digital nomad influencers on Twitter who sell extremely distorted, rosy, and often times false dreams to indie entrepreneurs like myself.

I believe that all sales are about selling into peoples dreams. I am sure that the false dreams you refer are an extremely good business and a willing market, because - who doesn't want to buy the dream of being a successful entrepreneur?

Ironically, assuming these people are creating products primarily based on their own experiences, there might not be anything false about it - it's just that you've trying to sell into less desirable dreams!

Fundamentally I believe that for me it is impossible to passionately pursue stuff I am not really interested in. This limits the desirability of the dreams I can sell into, and I have come to terms with that. You might even think of this as bad luck.

I've also come to terms with the fact that I have to create for myself first, and any interest I get from other people is purely a bonus. Obviously that doesn't pay the bills :-)

Re: I am done. I give up

#75

Post by vineyardmike »

jlangenauer wrote: post #5

Why do "indiehackers" want attention from and create products for other "indiehackers"? As a group they seem the people with the least amount of money to spend on products, and are some of the most cheapskate people on the planet. Here's some advice: if you want to make money selling a software product, sell to people who are able and willing to spend money on it.

> Why do "indiehackers" want attention from and create products for other "indiehackers"?

They’re influencers. That’s why people want their attention.

I think it kinda has the look of a cool lifestyle from the outside (to some). They’re digital nomads and they travel to cool places and meeting cool people and tweeting big graphs that go up and to the right. They disavow lots of possessions (again a nomad) while professing being all tech all the time. Once upon a time tech-entrepreneurs might have rented a shack in Palo Alto, but now they tweet while couch surfing in Lisbon. Silicon Valley is too crowded when you’re solo.

I would take a house in Palo Alto over an airport lounge and an AirBnB du jour but the nomadic life is honestly cheaper and seems attainable, if only I can build that indie business.

Re: I am done. I give up

#76

Post by seydor »

jlangenauer wrote: post #5

Why do "indiehackers" want attention from and create products for other "indiehackers"? As a group they seem the people with the least amount of money to spend on products, and are some of the most cheapskate people on the planet. Here's some advice: if you want to make money selling a software product, sell to people who are able and willing to spend money on it.

Because they probably don't know another community. A lot of people are also inspired and copying what Nomadlist did, but that is a project aimed at precisely this type of wandering wannabee entrepreneurs.

Re: I am done. I give up

#77

Post by jacquesm »

saalweachter wrote: post #60
jacquesm wrote: post #24

It's not defeat, it is the expected outcome. Out of 20 or so of my projects two have been break-out successes and the rest (commercially) complete failures, and I'm very lucky to have two out of those 20, with very small variations in timing it would have been a big fat zero. So don't beat yourself up about it, some people win the lottery and the majority don't. There is absolutely no recipe that will work every time…

I was an engineer at a successful startup. We grew, we went bankrupt, we laid off most the company, the founders kicked in enough to keep us going and we restructured to give the remaining people larger shares. We became profitable and finally sold to another company. My payday was about $70k, which was a nice bonus, I was happy to get it. I moved on to big tech. The company withered away, the company that bought it…

That sucks. I know quite a few stories like that. I'm more active as an investor these days than as an entrepreneur, the projects I still run are more for fun than for income (or even potential income) and I can't tell you how happy I am that that pressure has abated somewhat.

It's annoying that even the successes tend to screw over the employees and more often than not the founders as well. Typical dilution by the time you reach series 'A' (assuming that that's all that you need to take off) is terrible and if you need more capital you end up working for banks and VCs.

If I were to start another company (which I am trying very hard to avoid) I would try extremely hard to do it without outside capital and I would do it in some boring b2b field where nobody else wants to go because it isn't sexy enough to be able to attract capital. That way you avoid several of the risks of starting a new company at once: you have a relatively safe niche, no outsider is going to jump in giving away their product just to grow market share and the people that will receive your product are going to be super happy simply because there is no alternative.

Re: I am done. I give up

#78

Post by jwtnb »

jlangenauer wrote: post #5

Why do "indiehackers" want attention from and create products for other "indiehackers"? As a group they seem the people with the least amount of money to spend on products, and are some of the most cheapskate people on the planet. Here's some advice: if you want to make money selling a software product, sell to people who are able and willing to spend money on it.

This is great point. Every idie hacker wants to scratch his own itch but doesn't realize nobody else will want to buy even if they have similar problems.

Re: I am done. I give up

#79

Post by vineyardmike »

hef19898 wrote: post #71
vineyardmike wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A big fact of the entrepreneur world is that it is hugely based on luck. And for anything with bigger ambitions than a lifestyle business, don’t forget connections. Most founders are still men from Ivies or Stanford. Just look at the “PayPal mafia” to see how inbred tech investing can be. Not that most entrepreneurs need or should expect VC funding, but this is HN, run by a VC. You can totally run a business and be…

Personally, I have a problem with the term lifestyle business. Without plenty of VC money, building and running a business is hard . VC backed up start-ups fit the "lifestyle" business definition a lot better, IMHO. One can play CxO, or chief engineer or whatever fancy title one wants to hold without putting the effort and years in, without actually worrying about those nasty things like profitability, cash flow or a…

A lifestyle business is one you can do on your own and fit it into your life. Its goal is profitability only to the point of satisfying your lifestyle’s income requirements.

Historically to the term, people would retire to vacation towns (the lifestyle) and run things like bike shops or an ice cream stand just to have some income, not to be CxO and get rich.

Re: I am done. I give up

#80

Post by Kinnard »

Why don't you just win? Is there really any other option than winning? No. There isn't. Once you understand— and know— this then you won't be sad anymore.

I'd be happy to help you win!

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