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The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

city-journal.org

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Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#141

Post by UncleMeat »

rayiner wrote: post #49
defrost wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I mean, it's from a Federalist byline... Good point. I'm not from or in the US (although I frequently work in or with USAians) and it's just astonishing how much of the US Federalist | Conservative pieces lack any kind of policy substance -- the media from that side of the aisle seems almost entirely focused on raising dust in the air over trite matters of near zero import. I like fiscal responsibility and a lo…

This article concerns the metrics we use to decide how to advance kids into advanced educational opportunities. How is that a “trite matter of near zero import?” I think your view of the conservative reaction may be colored by the fact that you don’t have the other side of this culture war wherever you are in Europe or Asia. To my knowledge, elite high schools in Germany or China aren’t abandoning objective metrics l…

None of the metrics were changed. The article does not concern the metrics. It concerns the mechanism of communicating awards.

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#142

Post by vjulian »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #133
vjulian wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The view that “cultural groups have largely coalesced around race in this country, but that's the reality” is precisely the question. Is that the best and most effective proxy for population segmentation and policy-making? Many would argue that it isn’t. Regardless, what we can say with certainty is that it isn’t evaluated. I’m not arguing against diversity nor skin-color prejudice in America, I’m raising the questio…

Definitely a big question, and I don't know much about sociology so don't have any data. I will say though that using race as a signal for diversity has a few advantages. First it's a relatively objective metric that can't really be faked. Income also falls into that category, but my experience is that I grew up in a pretty diverse area, my schools growing up had about equal numbers of white, black, latino, and asian…

While I hold a US passport and live in the US, I can’t claim a background that is solidly from the US. In my experience in the US, location matters and general culture varies (surprisingly) widely. I would find it hard to believe that a skin-color segmentation is effective across the entire population. In my limited experience not in sociology but in running consumer segmentations as a management consultant years back, the idea of a single, best segmentation for all the USA does seem suspect. My personal experience in the US is relatively low in socioeconomic diversity but high in skin-color diversity (lots of educated, well to do people from all over the world who all think more or less similarly).

“Race” or specifically European-ancestry versus former slaves is the main, historical dichotomy in the US. But well-to-do “Asians”, various people from the continent of Asia, people from other continents, and mixing tends to dilute the historical dichotomy. But the mindset persists. To me it seems as though skin-color diversity feels good to certain (perhaps many) Americans, but it isn’t necessarily logical.

(Editing for typos)

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#144

Post by salad-fan »

ipaddr wrote: post #134
salad-fan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you. You’re the ones defending child molesters, after all.

[flagged]

Nice straw man you’ve propped up there, but it’s not mine and I have no interest in defending it. I hope Sky Daddy rewards you for defending his gang of pedophiles.

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#145

Post by vjulian »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #131
RestlessMind wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think LeBron is more or less privileged than some poor white kid from Appalachia?

I think diversity is about more than social status.

The US universities might do well by forcibly mixing people of different political stripes. Red and blue…makes purple?

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#146

Post by causality0 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #136
causality0 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t about deprioritizing excellence. Agreed, it's about giving fifty percent reward for zero percent effort. I think HN readers remember perhaps better than most how much the "peanut gallery" in the back of the class interfered with our ability to learn. I find the idea those assholes are going to get at least half credit for doing nothing absutely repugnant.

Who is getting reward for no effort? Literally nothing about the selection for the scholarship changed.

the school district’s new strategy of “equal outcomes for every student, without exception.” School administrators, for instance, have implemented an “equitable grading” policy that eliminates zeros, gives students a grade of 50 percent just for showing up, and assigns a cryptic code of “NTI” for assignments not turned in. It’s a race to the bottom.

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#147

Post by asranomani »

jcranmer wrote: post #69
fatjokes wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um what. Last I checked Asians were definitely a racial minority in America. Saying they're not minorities because they're a majority of TJ is like saying Blacks aren't minorities because they're a majority in Harlem. It denies their lived experiences outside a very specific bubble.

I'm not saying that they're not a minority; I'm saying they're not a disadvantaged minority. And, in the larger context of TJ, there's an ongoing battle over the extremely low level of black and Hispanic population (which are largely disadvantaged) versus the extremely high level of Asian population.

Are you serious? What do you know about the families? And what right do you have to dismiss our families as "advantaged" and thus deserving of having awards kept secret from us. This is the kind of two-faced callousness that has gotten the school into this trouble. Let me guess? You're also a member of the TJ Alumni Action Group, which has targeted our Asian families with racist stereotypes like the kind you are perpetuating.

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#148

Post by asranomani »

johnnyo wrote: post #75
havetocharge wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not think that the point of the article is to complain about award withholding from Asian students.. although the attribution of race seems misplaced. I thought the point was about the loss of meritocracy and the redefinition of what it means to fail. And grading work on a 50-100 scale.. you really don't think that's weird?

The focus of the article is on a parent complaining they didn’t get notified about a certificate their kid received.

No it's not. It's about a pattern of withholding merit information from parents and students for years.

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#149

Post by [deleted] »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #79
defrost wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That summary ignores all the relevant context. All that you added was not in the article and therefore not in the summary of the thrust of the article. > The story is thus about a deliberate decision by the administration to downplay a certain kind of educational metric It's about results arriving late and then filtering through what is pretty much a universal hand to hand to students that all school suffer through…

It is very unfortunate that conservatives have thoroughly discredited themselves. Now even when they make reasonable points, people are forced to doubt them. It is a consequence of baseless fear mongering and an unwillingness to take responsibility when those fears predictably do not pan out

[deleted]

Re: The war on merit takes a bizarre turn

#150

Post by ummonk »

johnnyo wrote: post #40
havetocharge wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a possible outcome. However, another possibility is that not all children are of the same aptitude, and therefore your experience might not be representative of their.

I was a National Merit scholar, FWIW. It’s not really a “prestigious award”. According to the article, 240 kids at the school got the same thing. At my large high school, lots of kids got it too.

It's an award that can get you a full ride or even a stipend at many state colleges. Prestigious or not, it's a very important award.
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