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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

forbes.com

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#131

Post by causality0 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #111
bioemerl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should do both. This is detracting from the fact that we have an actively hostile actor with a huge platform here in our country, and that needs to be handled as soon as possible. I totally support broad regulation of privacy law. TikTok is a much deeper concern. I don't like seeing a good cause used to distract from another good cause.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

Would you be concerned if your childrens' school curriculum had to get pre-approval from the Chinese government? That's the quantity of exposure we already have. An entity beholden to the CCP has an iron grip on the attention of America's youth.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#132

Post by lmm »

eldritch_4ier wrote: post #57
bayindirh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When US bans something to protect itself, that’s OK, but when another country does it, it’s a suppression of free speech and freedoms and whatnot. Doesn’t this sound a bit off ?

Good things are good, evil things are evil. This detached observer way of looking at the world is mind boggling. There is nothing contradictory about arguing for the good and arguing against the evil. I think this mindset stems from a fundamental uncertainty in our values, and conclude that our values are just as good as any others. It’s simply not true. No. TikTok is run by a state hostile to the ideals of freedom a…

The idea that US is good and China is evil is absurd. Other Americans do far more to destroy "ideals of freedom and our western way of life" than China does - hell, I'm pretty sure that with the current US polarisation, both sides would say they have more in common with China than with their US opponents - and they'd be right. Take any concept of "freedom" or "way of life" that you care for, and half the US is currently against it. TikTok is a bogeyman that has done nothing to Americans that Americans weren't already doing to themselves.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#133

Post by lmm »

jmyeet wrote: post #43

Whatever complaints people have about how deep the tendrils of the US government have infiltrated into US companies, there is at least some separation and the rule of law. Yes, the government can get warrants for pen registers, issue NSLs and the like but there's still a process for that. This simply isn't true for the Chinese government and Chinese companies. But the other issue, which is both more palatable and mor…

> Yes, the government can get warrants for pen registers, issue NSLs and the like but there's still a process for that.

> This simply isn't true for the Chinese government and Chinese companies.

Huh? Do you think the Chinese intelligence services don't have to go through processes and approvals before grabbing user data? It's exactly the same thing - sure it's a secret court that rubber-stamps every request put in front of it, but that's no different from how NSLs work.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#134

Post by phpisthebest »

bioemerl wrote: post #117
phpisthebest wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

Depends hugely on who you are and what happens with the politics. CIA and FBI are very big threats to you, which is why you vote regularly to ensure that your rights are represented and those agencies aren't able to abuse their power. China is a much more distant and abstract, but much more serious threat. If the FBI or CIA fucks up, they will put let's say 10% of people in prison for opposition to the state. If Chin…

>>which is why you vote regularly to ensure that your rights are represented and those agencies aren't able to abuse their power

That never works out in practice as the administrative state (which includes the FBI and CIA) are soo far removed from representative government they are basically unaccountable at this point, that is with out even getting into the idea that 1 vote in a nation of 350 million plus holds no real power anyway, or the problems with First past the post, or countless other topics around voting

"Democracy" is more or less an delusion those in power perpetuate to ensure the cattle think they have a choice

>>Imagine a world where the United States is convinced to stand by as Taiwan is invaded

I think we already live in such a world.

>>The CIA and FBI have checks on them and are balanced as we speak.

Do they? In any real sense? We have confirmed and rumored massive violations of constitutional rights both here and abroad yet there is no accountability. From the Torture report, to massive violation of 4th amendment via "parallel construction" to even the possibility of actual assassinations..

Who exactly are they accountable to? it is certainly not the people, or the constitution

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#135

Post by ipaddr »

phpisthebest wrote: post #111
bioemerl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should do both. This is detracting from the fact that we have an actively hostile actor with a huge platform here in our country, and that needs to be handled as soon as possible. I totally support broad regulation of privacy law. TikTok is a much deeper concern. I don't like seeing a good cause used to distract from another good cause.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

The average person would never come in contact with the fbi or be put in a cage randomly. Ask your neighbours / friends if they have heard about anyone in their circle who had this happen to them in some form.

That fear is from tv using it so often it seems true.

What does the average American need to fear about China? Very little in terms of impact to daily lives.

What does the average American need to fear about being secretly recorded by a neighbour? Very little.. they still think its creepy

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#136

Post by phpisthebest »

causality0 wrote: post #131
phpisthebest wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

Would you be concerned if your childrens' school curriculum had to get pre-approval from the Chinese government? That's the quantity of exposure we already have. An entity beholden to the CCP has an iron grip on the attention of America's youth.

I would not want my Children on TikTok if it was American Owned. so the connection to China.

TikTok is toxic trash for many reason well beyond its connection to China

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#137

Post by jfengel »

phpisthebest wrote: post #111
bioemerl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should do both. This is detracting from the fact that we have an actively hostile actor with a huge platform here in our country, and that needs to be handled as soon as possible. I totally support broad regulation of privacy law. TikTok is a much deeper concern. I don't like seeing a good cause used to distract from another good cause.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

The FBI has that power, but at least in theory they don't want to. That's the balance we strike with government: we give them the monopoly on the legitimate use of force, in exchange for some kind of believe that they won't mis-use that force.

The FBI has at least some kind of supervision, from elected officials who ultimately answer to their constituents. That's a long way from a guarantee, but it's more than nothing, which is what you have on China.

China can't (legitimately) put you in a cage, but they can do a lot of other things to make you really unhappy, and there's nothing you can do about it. Whether that nets out to be more or less scary is up to you, but there is a difference on which to make the distinction.

Me, I'm not really so sure that this app represents all that big a threat compared to all of the other things. My concerns are more with the intermediate: large corporations without the power to put me in a cage but with the power to do a lot of other bad things. Including just plain losing my info by accident, something neither the FBI nor China is likely to do.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#138

Post by bioemerl »

8note wrote: post #82
bioemerl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should do both. This is detracting from the fact that we have an actively hostile actor with a huge platform here in our country, and that needs to be handled as soon as possible. I totally support broad regulation of privacy law. TikTok is a much deeper concern. I don't like seeing a good cause used to distract from another good cause.

We should do the one because it covers both cases. A TikTok that doesn't have the ability to do bad things isn't an issue. Focusing on TikTok pretends that it's the only hostile actor with a large platform in that needs to be handled asap You can handle Facebook and TikTok at the same time by putting in strong privacy regulations, along with all the other similar hostile actors

I'm very skeptical that there is such a thing as a regulation which can keep a state actor with zero transparency like TikTok in check.

Even if you move all of their code and mandate that they have a shell company in the United States, and you mandate that none of American data ever goes to China, they can ignore you. You validate that every request only stays in the United States? How do you validate that there's no communication between the two systems?

The state they operate in is going to make whistle blowing very difficult, not ever allow proper auditing into the state apparatus which ultimately controls the company.

You can administrate code, but unless you actually build that code yourself and basically understand it from the ground up with every single update, which is going to be nearly impossible, it's going to be very easy to sneak features through.

The problem is, keeping this safe is going to be a herculan task, and we're just not up to it. Facebook is tame in comparison, because at the end of the day they're subject to our open media, transparency laws, corporate auditing, and all of that other fun stuff.

We can reasonably pass regulations that help keep Facebook in check.

We cannot reasonably pass regulations which we'll keep TikTok in check.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#139

Post by phpisthebest »

Jolter wrote: post #121
phpisthebest wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

I guess there is a tacit assumption that you and the US government have some shared goals, but that you share fewer goals with ByteDance or the government of China. I guess most Americans aren’t very scared of the feds “because they have nothing to hide”, which as we know is a false sense of security in any surveillance state. But it can still be true that you have /more/ to fear from the government of China, given t…

>>tacit assumption that you and the US government have some shared goals

My goal is to live my life free from abuse, coercion, and infringement of my natural rights as a living human

the governments goal (be it china or US) is power, and control via the exclusive authority to initiate violence on the people with in the sphere of influence

I do not share any goals with government.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#140

Post by robswc »

I truly wish Trump would have been able to actually ban TikTok (or at least force a sale).

The recent twitter files show that the bond between Government and social media companies is a little too close... but it would be foolish to suggest that the lesser of the two evils here is China.

It is actually insane that we let China do whatever they want here while US companies are effectively prevented from gaining a foothold in China.

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