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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

forbes.com

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#71

Post by sneak »

zug_zug wrote: post #7

I feel like this is talking out of both sides of the mouth. If the issue is that corporations aren't following data privacy laws, build the privacy into the tool at the software/ecosystem level (e.g make signup without true name / phone number / IMEI a legal requirement, signup without location sharing a legal requirement) then it'll be impossible to track journalists for both Chinese and American companies.

Companies use phone number for signup because phone numbers cost money, and it serves as a proxy to allow companies to generally avoid having people make hundreds of thousands of burner accounts.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#72

Post by shrewduser »

woodruffw wrote: post #60
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Do you want it to have that power” What an odd question. The government bans things all the time - can you go and buy unpasteurized milk right now? Or walk into a weapons store and buy brass knuckles? But heaven forbid, we’re abandoning our principles if we ban a data collection platform owned and operated by a genocidal undemocratic government.

Of course the government bans things all the time. The question is of kind: unpasteurized milk and brass knuckles exist in regulatory environments that don't meaningfully impinge upon civil liberties. It's not even clear what statute you'd use to "ban" TikTok. Is it a national security risk?

it is a national risk but i imagine there's also economic / trade grounds in the fact that china doesn't let american companies compete in their market.

I don't see any reason for it not to be in the purview of government.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#73

Post by LarryMullins »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #9

Were the journalists foolish enough to install the app (not victim blaming but come on) or does the TikTok app scan for other wifi signatures in the vicinity and that’s how they correlated the locations?

> Were the journalists foolish enough to install the app

Foolish doesn't describe it, if they knew they were taking a calculated risk.

Suppose they knew there was a risk the app could be used to track them, and maybe even a risk that tracking data could be used to assassinate them. But if TikTok tracked them with the app, that could also become part of their story against TikTok and thus advance their journalistic career. Fortune favors the bold.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#74

Post by mannerheim »

woodruffw wrote: post #39
ironSkillet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed...I don't understand why this isn't an obvious thing all of congress would get behind. Change the law if necessary.

Because the statutory (not to mention constitutional) implications are staggering: what about our government's structure do you think gives it the authority to outright ban social media companies? Do you want it to have that power, or do you just want to government to casuistically ban the things you think should be banned? Note: this is entirely independent from whether TikTok is bad, which I'm more confident than n…

You don't need to ban it. Just forbid US companies from doing business with TikTok, and their users will plummet when they can't pay for CDNs in America.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#75

Post by blessedwhiskers »

jimbob45 wrote: post #38
bigmattystyles wrote: post #9

Were the journalists foolish enough to install the app (not victim blaming but come on) or does the TikTok app scan for other wifi signatures in the vicinity and that’s how they correlated the locations?

I was wondering this myself. Tiktok surely needs location data permitted to track, no? I'm sure there are some heuristics it can use, perhaps pinging servers or image matching pictures but surely this could all be solved by putting TikTok in a container with specifically limited permissions.

Images probably have location data in the EXIF as well that can be used for this. If notifications cause background data fetch from their servers that could also probably leak IP address.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#76

Post by LarryMullins »

woodruffw wrote: post #39
ironSkillet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed...I don't understand why this isn't an obvious thing all of congress would get behind. Change the law if necessary.

Because the statutory (not to mention constitutional) implications are staggering: what about our government's structure do you think gives it the authority to outright ban social media companies? Do you want it to have that power, or do you just want to government to casuistically ban the things you think should be banned? Note: this is entirely independent from whether TikTok is bad, which I'm more confident than n…

The Constitution plainly gives Congress the power and right to regulate international trade.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#77

Post by LarryMullins »

bayindirh wrote: post #13
kranke155 wrote: post #6

Yeah. Ban TikTok, have an American company make a clone. Why is this insanity allowed ? China doesn’t allow Western social networks. Why do we allow our strategic enemy to have software on our phones? End this madness. Stop the sale of Chinese tech in the West, period. It’s all backdoored. (if you think they are interested in “co-living” go talk to the Kremlin on how that went. China is bidding its time but their int…

When US bans something to protect itself, that’s OK, but when another country does it, it’s a suppression of free speech and freedoms and whatnot. Doesn’t this sound a bit off ?

US soldiers used rifles. Nazi soldiers also used rifles. Oh the hypocrisy!

Give me a break.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#78

Post by Adraghast »

mannerheim wrote: post #68
Adraghast wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The KGB has not existed for decades. If you’re going to make inflammatory statements, you should make sure you’re talking about the correct things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Security_Committee_of_th...

https://101kgb.iheart.com/

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#79

Post by woodruffw »

shrewduser wrote: post #72
woodruffw wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the government bans things all the time. The question is of kind: unpasteurized milk and brass knuckles exist in regulatory environments that don't meaningfully impinge upon civil liberties. It's not even clear what statute you'd use to "ban" TikTok. Is it a national security risk?

it is a national risk but i imagine there's also economic / trade grounds in the fact that china doesn't let american companies compete in their market. I don't see any reason for it not to be in the purview of government.

It is in the purview of the government. That's not the question; the statutory justification for a ban is the question.

Every single country on this planet of ours engages in some form of protectionism, whether we like it or not: again, it isn't clear what casuistic justification explains singling out China's protectionism, and even then banning just one company involved in it. Italy doesn't let us sell the sawdust we call "Parmesan," but I'd prefer it if we didn't ban selling the real thing in retaliation.

Finally, for the national risk: what, precisely is the national risk? You can argue (correctly!) that they're a bad actor given this news, and I would be more than happy to see those involved in the surveillance of journalists see the inside of a court. But this doesn't even come close to meeting the standard for a national security risk, weak as that standard has become.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#80

Post by woodruffw »

mannerheim wrote: post #74
woodruffw wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the statutory (not to mention constitutional) implications are staggering: what about our government's structure do you think gives it the authority to outright ban social media companies? Do you want it to have that power, or do you just want to government to casuistically ban the things you think should be banned? Note: this is entirely independent from whether TikTok is bad, which I'm more confident than n…

You don't need to ban it. Just forbid US companies from doing business with TikTok, and their users will plummet when they can't pay for CDNs in America.

Thanks for actually answering the question!

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if this happens. I just wish we wouldn't swing "national security" around as the cudgel.

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