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H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

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Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#41

Post by jfengel »

jihadjihad wrote: post #5

I was lucky not to have The Great Gatsby ruined for me by having to read it in high school. I borrowed it from the library a couple years ago, and wondered if it could live up to the massive hype around it. I have to say that it does. Mencken's critique seems to be that for all the craftsmanship Fitzgerald displays on the page, the story itself is rather thin and contrived. I don't think I'd disagree with that, thoug…

I wish I saw what you saw. I was also fortunate not to have it ruined in high school. I didn't read it until my 50s.

I just didn't get it. All I see is a bunch of horrible people being stupid and terrible to each other.

I don't doubt that that's a very American thing. I just don't want to read about it, no matter how well it's written.

Inconsistency note: I love doing Shakespeare, even though it's precisely a bunch of stupid people treating each other horribly, but very, very well written.

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#42

Post by yesenadam »

aidenn0 wrote: post #17
ghaff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the 18th and 19th century tomes that are tough sledding in high school a lot of the time; many like Moby Dick and much of Dickens are pretty long in addition to the somewhat archaic language. There are exceptions like The Picture of Dorian Gray although that's very late 19th century--and, of course, Wilde is very accessible. ADDED: In general, I don't think I read any, but both Fitzgerald and Hemingway s…

Obviously everyone is different, but (aside from Shakespeare) the two books I read in HS that I most liked were Cather in the Rye and A Tale of Two Cities . I should note that after liking A Tale of Two Cities so much, I tried David Copperfield and Oliver Twist and found neither to my liking. I had my great expectations of Dickens' other work rather crushed at that point. Oh, and forcing anyone to read Melville shoul…

I really loved Great Expectations.

Also Britten's Billy Budd is one of the 2 operas I really love.

1966 BBC version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1lVBfqQyjs

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#44

Post by ghaff »

Tycho wrote: post #43

One thing about the The Great Gatsby (and I do think it's a masterpiece), is the famous closing paragraph - does anyone else find it just a bit overwrought?

I don't really. It's what I usually copy and paste when I'm trying to compare text to speech voices :-)

ADDED: I think there's a rhythm to the words and that presents a good opportunity to see how natural the TTS is.

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#45

Post by yesenadam »

myrmidon wrote: post #30
Tomte wrote: post #11

Mencken is very quotable. For example: > Evil. That which one believes of others. It is a sin to believe evil of others, but it is seldom a mistake. > There is always an easy solution to every human problem—neat, plausible, and wrong.

My favorite: > The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

I've seen so many great passages it's hard to chose just one, but this gives the flavour:

"Man's natural instinct, in fact, is never toward what is sound and true; it is toward what is specious and false. Let any great nation of modern times be confronted by two conflicting propositions, the one grounded upon the utmost probability and reasonableness and the other upon the most glaring error, and it will almost invariably embrace the latter. It is so in politics, which consists wholly of a succession of unintelligent crazes, many of them so idiotic that they exist only as battle-cries and shibboleths and are not reducible to logical statement at all. It is so in religion, which, like poetry, is simply a concerted effort to deny the most obvious realities. It is so in nearly every field of thought. The ideas that conquer the race most rapidly and arouse the wildest enthusiasm and are held most tenaciously are precisely the ideas that are most insane. This has been true since the first "advanced" gorilla put on underwear, cultivated a frown and began his first lecture tour in the first chautauqua, and it will be so until the high gods, tired of the farce at last, obliterate the race with one great, final blast of fire, mustard gas and streptococci." - Meditation on Meditation

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/53474/53474-h/53474-h.htm

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#46

Post by tsujamin »

motohagiography wrote: post #23

Gatsby, like most officially great novels, is the least good of Fitzgerald's books. Tender is the Night and The Beautiful and the Damned were way better. There was something about critics of the time who needed to suffer to appreciate anything and it was good of Mencken to hold Fitzgerald to his own standards, but what made authors of the era great were the books that were actually enjoyable. When you look at other a…

The conversations between Maughm and his characters in The Razors Edge are chefs kiss

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#47

Post by crclist »

jfengel wrote: post #41
jihadjihad wrote: post #5

I was lucky not to have The Great Gatsby ruined for me by having to read it in high school. I borrowed it from the library a couple years ago, and wondered if it could live up to the massive hype around it. I have to say that it does. Mencken's critique seems to be that for all the craftsmanship Fitzgerald displays on the page, the story itself is rather thin and contrived. I don't think I'd disagree with that, thoug…

I wish I saw what you saw. I was also fortunate not to have it ruined in high school. I didn't read it until my 50s. I just didn't get it. All I see is a bunch of horrible people being stupid and terrible to each other. I don't doubt that that's a very American thing. I just don't want to read about it, no matter how well it's written . Inconsistency note: I love doing Shakespeare, even though it's precisely a bunch…

I recently read A Confederacy of Dunces, and my feeling was "Yuck. These people were all awful." I looked at reviews, and some people thought the same thing, and the others were like "Ha ha ha. These people are all awful. Isn’t this fun?"

And I was left wondering whether the two groups of people have had different life experiences. Some have had bitter experience of awful people and it'll never be something to enjoy.

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#48

Post by crclist »

elliekelly wrote: post #25
jihadjihad wrote: post #5

I was lucky not to have The Great Gatsby ruined for me by having to read it in high school. I borrowed it from the library a couple years ago, and wondered if it could live up to the massive hype around it. I have to say that it does. Mencken's critique seems to be that for all the craftsmanship Fitzgerald displays on the page, the story itself is rather thin and contrived. I don't think I'd disagree with that, thoug…

As an adult it’s quite fun to re-read all of the books I “hated” in high school. They’re so much more enjoyable!

I haven't generally found that, but at least not having to read in the mode of trying to memorize all the facts for the coming quiz is an improvement.

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#49

Post by jfengel »

crclist wrote: post #47
jfengel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I saw what you saw. I was also fortunate not to have it ruined in high school. I didn't read it until my 50s. I just didn't get it. All I see is a bunch of horrible people being stupid and terrible to each other. I don't doubt that that's a very American thing. I just don't want to read about it, no matter how well it's written . Inconsistency note: I love doing Shakespeare, even though it's precisely a bunch…

I recently read A Confederacy of Dunces, and my feeling was "Yuck. These people were all awful." I looked at reviews, and some people thought the same thing, and the others were like "Ha ha ha. These people are all awful. Isn’t this fun?" And I was left wondering whether the two groups of people have had different life experiences. Some have had bitter experience of awful people and it'll never be something to enjoy.

That one was ruined for me in college, assigned in freshman English. I hated it so, so much. And literature in general, if that was the literature they felt was so important as to assign it.

I mentioned a love for Shakespeare in a footnote, something I developed long after high school, despite-not-because-of my high school education. I found my way into it via movies. The same happened with Jane Austen, whom I hated as dumb-people-doing-dumb-things until the right film showed me how it actually was supposed to work.

Conceivably such a thing could exist for Confederacy of Dunces, but I'm not going out of my way to find out.

Re: H.L. Mencken Reviews the Great Gatsby (1925)

#50

Post by ghaff »

crclist wrote: post #47
jfengel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I saw what you saw. I was also fortunate not to have it ruined in high school. I didn't read it until my 50s. I just didn't get it. All I see is a bunch of horrible people being stupid and terrible to each other. I don't doubt that that's a very American thing. I just don't want to read about it, no matter how well it's written . Inconsistency note: I love doing Shakespeare, even though it's precisely a bunch…

I recently read A Confederacy of Dunces, and my feeling was "Yuck. These people were all awful." I looked at reviews, and some people thought the same thing, and the others were like "Ha ha ha. These people are all awful. Isn’t this fun?" And I was left wondering whether the two groups of people have had different life experiences. Some have had bitter experience of awful people and it'll never be something to enjoy.

I lived in New Orleans for a time and read Confederacy of Dunces. Saw it much later as a play. Think it's fantastic.

But to your basic point. I was having a conversation with a college friend about series including Orange is the New Black and others that I don't remember--possibly Breaking Bad. And they just couldn't get into a series where you were supposed to sympathize with people who were basically, well, bad to various degrees. Probably (for whatever reason) some people just don't like anti-heroes in literature or video.

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