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Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

nytimes.com

311–320 of 338 posts

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#311
post #300
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up the backgrounds of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. And? A few were professors for a few years and maybe one made it a major job. The former head of the SEC was also a partner at Goldman Sachs, where he co-chaired their Finance committee overseeing their internal controls, spent 4 years in an undersecretary position in the treasury department, joined the Senate staff and helped write Sarbanes-Oxley…

He also forgets that a large part of the federal reserve is, essentially, a research institution. That does research, publishes and critiques papers, and then takes those papers into account when drafting policy.

The question was around whether Economics professors are influential outside of academia.

The answer is unequivocally yes.

You seem to have changed the discussion to something else.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'll take a crack at it: the act of accumulating a billion dollars is an anti-social act. billionaires should have been giving it away hand over fist long before that happened.

They own part of the company that is worth that much. They can't liquidate all their assets without harming the company, thus the livelihoods of their employees. Look at what they create, not only what they are worth. Also your charity endeavors are more effective with the compound interest of a billionaire vs a multi-millionaire.

that sounds to me like a great excuse a billionaire could use to make himself believe that no, really, me keeping all this money is actually good.

sam bankman-fried is purported to have used a variation of this.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#313
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do they not know how little power college professors wield outside academia Are you joking? That's absolutely not the case for Economics (the context we're talking about here). Why don't you look up the backgrounds of the people on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors? Or, look up who drafts major legislation? If you watch MIT's Econ 101 course on YouTube, the professor who teaches it was actually the guy behind…

I looked up the backgrounds of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. And? A few were professors for a few years and maybe one made it a major job. The former head of the SEC was also a partner at Goldman Sachs, where he co-chaired their Finance committee overseeing their internal controls, spent 4 years in an undersecretary position in the treasury department, joined the Senate staff and helped write Sarbanes-Oxley…

The question is around Economics Professors and their effects on society and how well-connected they tend to be. Many Econ professors at business schools are former bankers. Many bankers are former Econ profs (banks have a ton of staff in research roles).

You’ve changed the argument to… i don’t even know?

The question is whether Economics Professors are influential outside of academia and if they’re well connected. The answer is obviously yes. The top professors (i.e. MIT Profs, Harvard Profs, Yale, etc.) are extremely influential far beyond academia.

I'd agree that you're right in other contexts. Like, a history professor or something. But that's not what we're talking about here.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#314
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no such things as benevolent billionaires. There’s a problem with a society that enables billionaires to exist at all. It shouldn’t even be possible but we’re here for a lot of reasons. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cu6EbELZ6I

Why? J. K. Rowling created the best selling book series of all time and hundreds of millions of people bought and loved her books to read them. What is problematic about that? Should she have just given the last 6 books away for free because she already created too much value for other people writing the first harry potter?

Nothing is problematic about that. But as a society there is also nothing problematic about raising taxes to 90% on billionaires and giant corporations for their capital gains etc.

I am saying that the ones who generate revenue (money going one way) are not automatically the best to fund social programs (money going the other way).

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'll take a crack at it: the act of accumulating a billion dollars is an anti-social act. billionaires should have been giving it away hand over fist long before that happened.

They own part of the company that is worth that much. They can't liquidate all their assets without harming the company, thus the livelihoods of their employees. Look at what they create, not only what they are worth. Also your charity endeavors are more effective with the compound interest of a billionaire vs a multi-millionaire.

Shares represent extracting rents from the value exchange ecosystem the company participates in. Selling shares is fine for growing a company. But the perverse part is shareholders then go ahead and sell them to others, sometimes forming a bubble, other times pushing company management to extract ever more rents / eke out ever more profit for them to support sky-high valuations. This investor bubble hurts both consumers and producers and enriches those who passively park their money in things.

Don’t get me wrong, I think in growth stages, stock exchanges do allocate money to fuel productive sectors of society. But during other periods of a company’s life, they are mere zero sum games, where money goes mostly from retail investors to enrich hedge funds.

I think the problem is that there is no limit to shareholder value extraction. The non-productive sector of society parks their money in shares in order to legally plunder the value exchange of producers and consumers.

Now that we have utility tokens, the network can be owned by the participants. Raise money by selling utility tokens at a discount. They have a ceiling after all (the value of the utility token) and you can only sell as much as people believe there will be demand in the end from actual customers.

You can raise money by selling shares temporarily but have the shares be usable as discounts on utility tokens so you can sell them to customers. And that way you can ignore your shareholders clamoring for you to cannibalize your ecosystem for them.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#316
post #4

The prisoner's dilemma strikes again.

It's like advanced level Prisoner's dilemma being played by prisoners who all took graduate level coursework in game theory. The lack of cooperation among the prisoners probably signals that they realize they aren't playing a version of iterated prisoner's dilemma any more.

"Late stage" iterated PD.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#317
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up the backgrounds of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. And? A few were professors for a few years and maybe one made it a major job. The former head of the SEC was also a partner at Goldman Sachs, where he co-chaired their Finance committee overseeing their internal controls, spent 4 years in an undersecretary position in the treasury department, joined the Senate staff and helped write Sarbanes-Oxley…

The question is around Economics Professors and their effects on society and how well-connected they tend to be. Many Econ professors at business schools are former bankers. Many bankers are former Econ profs (banks have a ton of staff in research roles). You’ve changed the argument to… i don’t even know? The question is whether Economics Professors are influential outside of academia and if they’re well connected. T…

Some business school professors are accomplished former businessmen. Some are just lifelong academics. The ones with power are because of their non-professor credentials and connections.

Schools, business schools especially, like to hire influential people as professors. So there are many powerful professors. But that's not why they are powerful.

Since that's not why they are powerful, there's no reason to bring it up.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#318
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is up with the conspiracy theories that professors are somehow politically powerful entities? Is everyone putting forth these theories still in college? Do they not know how little power college professors wield outside academia. Personal connections to the head of the SEC on the other hand are valuable.

I agree that the focus on her father's professorship is strange in this context. More broadly it seems like it might be blurring lines... SBF's parents being specifically Law professors, and having a certain level of access to FTX, would likely have been aware of any criminality occurring and should have tried to prevent it. You're right that what matters is: - Ellison's father is strongly connected to the SEC head -…

[deleted]

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#319
post #226

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough. [0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

Reveals, not betrays.

[deleted]

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#320
post #226

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough. [0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

Reveals, not betrays.

Betrays is fine here. https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/collocations/american...
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