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Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

nytimes.com

301–310 of 338 posts

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#301
post #267
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's a lie which at times has real impact on trial outcomes. I wouldn't really put it in the same category.

Sentences for federal drug crimes are based on substance weight, not value.

Yes, but federal drug crimes are not the only kind of drug crimes.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#302

The bigger story is that in their complaint, the SEC is declaring FTT to be an investment contract and therefore a "security". https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sec-calls-ftt-exchange-token-... Since all exchange native tokens more or less work the same way, that would mean they are all securities. That would include BNB. If this holds, the crypto exchange game is over.

> all exchange native tokens more or less work the same way, that would mean they are all securities... If this holds, the crypto exchange game is over. Exchanges don't need tokens to be a place to swap and park coins. I don't see Kraken or Coinbase using a house token/security. Some exchanges will be okay.

Can someone enlighten me on why exchanges created their me-too coins in the first place? As a way to move out of crypto into a sort of non-fiat purgatory before taking a position again later on? Like, why does BNB even need to exist?

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#303
post #226

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough. [0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

Reveals, not betrays.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#304

The thing that makes me very uneasy about this is... it's crypto. If you let people walk away with anything less than decades in prison you're setting a bad precedent. Why? Because the entire design of crypto is to allow you to squirrel money away, honestly what are the chances that these guys have some cold wallet lying around with a few million dollars in bitcoin? That's what I'd do if I was running this scam.

You're assuming that FTX is the extent of the DOJ and SEC investigations. SBF is going to be offered a deal - "Spend the rest of your life in prison or give us CZ/Binance and all the other big players and be out in 10". Remember, in addition to their chat group labeled "Wirefraud" they also had another one called "Exchange coordination" that the heads of other exchanges participated in. In addition to SBF, CZ (Binanc…

Good luck getting CZ extradited to the US.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all exchange native tokens more or less work the same way, that would mean they are all securities... If this holds, the crypto exchange game is over. Exchanges don't need tokens to be a place to swap and park coins. I don't see Kraken or Coinbase using a house token/security. Some exchanges will be okay.

Can someone enlighten me on why exchanges created their me-too coins in the first place? As a way to move out of crypto into a sort of non-fiat purgatory before taking a position again later on? Like, why does BNB even need to exist?

BNB and FTT exist(ed) so their exchanges can raise/create a lot of money. It's a little similar to why stocks exist, which is why they are clearly securities.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#306
post #4

The prisoner's dilemma strikes again.

There was so much evidence that even if everyone stayed silent they weren't getting off.

When's the last time SBF stayed silent though

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#307

Caroline's dad is an MIT econ prof and wrote a series of books titled Hard Math for X. New installment should surely be Hard Math for Crypto Fraud and Jail Evasion.

> Caroline's dad is an MIT econ prof and wrote a series of books titled Hard Math for X

He wrote them for caroline and her sister when they were in elementary school, because they excelled in math and wanted more of a challenge.

I bought these books after reading about her when this first started happening a few weeks ago.

No joke, those books are really tough. They are for elementary and middle schoolers, aannnndddd I can't get thru them. lol

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She got 11 years of which she'll have to serve at least around 9 because it's federal, and that was for something that probably wasn't fraudulent from the very beginning. So, seems like they... won't be okay.

She's going to a prison that more resembles a country club (it has no fences or walls) There is no way she'll serve 9 years. She's appealing and the feds are extremely forgiving if you have great lawyers when it comes to white collar crime.

What would be the appropriate prison, one where she lives in depravation and is regularly assaulted by guards and other inmates? Our prison system is deeply unjust and more people should be going to her kind of prison rather than vice versa by my view.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#309

There is a good chance SBF will be released on bail so he does not have to spend time in detention in NYC. The charges against him are all nonviolent crimes. The question I have is if the judge releases him from custody, "Will SBF do more interviews?" Lots of people are speculating on sentencing, some are comparing SBF to Holmes, but IMHO it's likely in this case he is going to plead guilty. Whatever comes out in a c…

A guilty plea in the criminal trial will be introduced at the civil trial as a per se admission of guilt. I'm not following your logic.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#310
post #163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the previous administration never prosecuted any financial crimes, especially not Elizabth Holmes, right? "In June 2018, Theranos announced that Holmes was stepping down as CEO. On the same day, the Department of Justice announced that a federal grand jury had charged Holmes, along with Balwani, with nine counts of wire fraud and two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud." [0] [0] https://www.businessinsider.…

In 2018, Elizabeth Holmes has the misfortune of having multiple cabinet members, Presidental ally Rupert Murdoch and Republican stalwarts like Kissinger and former Senators among her defrauded investors. Other than Theranos there was little financial crime prosecution.

It is true that white collar prosecutions have declined but this is part of a long running trend (https://www.vox.com/2015/8/5/9099935/federal-white-collar-cr..., https://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/crim/514/). It is also true that the former president was on the record as against the FCPA but there were more enforcement actions in his term than most other presidents (https://www.gibsondunn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Chart2...). If there is any increase this year it's likely going to be due to a bunch of low hanging fruit PPP fraud cases.
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