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Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

nytimes.com

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Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#231

Post by benjaminwootton »

Having scanned the documents, I can imagine a dynamic where Ellison was the CEO, but SBF was really pulling the strings.

I bet many companies are like that, where investors or a chairman are the real decision maker and the CEO is managing downwards only. Especially when you have a complex corporate setup where you are told to request funds and resources from a parent org etc.

If I am in a C-level position again I would definetly avoid a situation where I was C-level in name only, if only to avoid the legal risk.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#232

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

pjc50 wrote: post #219
fardo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a good chance SBF will be released on bail so he does not have to spend time in detention in NYC. The charges against him are all nonviolent crimes I don’t agree with this theory, as I think it’s rather likely SBF will be viewed as a flight risk. • His heavy involvement in the cryptocurrency space makes it likely he has significant moveable digital cash reserves that cannot be easily seized and which would…

Confiscate his passport, put his face on the no-fly list, and electronic tag him? Although possibly more relevant is the reasons Kevin Mitnick was denied bail; what can he do from a computer?

Both Ellison's and Wang's plea agreements contain the same unmodified provision from the US Attorney's Office requiring them to agree to surrender their travel documents as a condition of bail in exchange for the US Attorney promise not to object to their release on bail.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#233

Post by orwin »

LatteLazy wrote: post #220
shapefrog wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She got 11 years for not delivering 10x to the VC's. Just imagine what you would get for fucking with peoples health.

She got 11 years for lying about her product in order to defraud people...

And? Sorry but musk sold robot-taxi by 2020 and cheaper trucking by 2019. And precommands.

I don't see any differences between the two. I admit I did look at thunderfoot's videos on musk and was convinced since 2019 he was a small conman. I don't understand how Holmes is any different.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#234

Post by ls15 »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #231

Having scanned the documents, I can imagine a dynamic where Ellison was the CEO, but SBF was really pulling the strings. I bet many companies are like that, where investors or a chairman are the real decision maker and the CEO is managing downwards only. Especially when you have a complex corporate setup where you are told to request funds and resources from a parent org etc. If I am in a C-level position again I wou…

That restaurant at the corner that never has guests, but doesn't go bankrupt, is probably the same.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#235

Post by Gareth321 »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #231

Having scanned the documents, I can imagine a dynamic where Ellison was the CEO, but SBF was really pulling the strings. I bet many companies are like that, where investors or a chairman are the real decision maker and the CEO is managing downwards only. Especially when you have a complex corporate setup where you are told to request funds and resources from a parent org etc. If I am in a C-level position again I wou…

> If I am in a C-level position again I would definetly avoid a situation where I was C-level in name only if only to avoid the legal risk.

How much are they paying, exactly?

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#236

Post by bundze »

maxbond wrote: post #162
TotoHorner wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, this is the comment section of a HN topic that's specifically about Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang (their names are included in the title). If this were some random other thread, then yeah sure it would be confusing to just say Gary or Caroline.

I guess my question is, why the familiarity? Why not Ellison and Wang? The confusion stuff I shouldn't have included, it was extraneous. I'm just puzzled why we're speaking of them as if they were friends or treasured celebrities. I don't mean that as a criticism either, I just feel like I missed a beat culturally.

My guess is that it's subconsciously patronizing behavior. Ellison and Wang are both young (around 28/29 I think) and they are no longer respectable after their spectacular failure. People feel entitled to call them whatever they want and their first names are much easier to remember than their last names.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#237

Post by LatteLazy »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #231

Having scanned the documents, I can imagine a dynamic where Ellison was the CEO, but SBF was really pulling the strings. I bet many companies are like that, where investors or a chairman are the real decision maker and the CEO is managing downwards only. Especially when you have a complex corporate setup where you are told to request funds and resources from a parent org etc. If I am in a C-level position again I wou…

I get where you are coming from, but if she was CEO, she was responsible for her actions (and inactions) in that position. Letting some people off is not just and the various narratives these people are all spinning to avoid responsibility for their actions are ALL equally BS.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#238

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #193

There is a good chance SBF will be released on bail so he does not have to spend time in detention in NYC. The charges against him are all nonviolent crimes. The question I have is if the judge releases him from custody, "Will SBF do more interviews?" Lots of people are speculating on sentencing, some are comparing SBF to Holmes, but IMHO it's likely in this case he is going to plead guilty. Whatever comes out in a c…

Neither Ellison's nor Wang's plea agreements contain recommended sentences, or waivers of any right to appeal sentences, so I am probably wrong to assume SBF's would be any different in that respect. When speculating about sentencing I always consider that sentencing guidelines are just guidelines. They are not rules. I had a bet with a friend on Holmes' sentence, and we based our numbers on sentencing guidlines. That worked quite well. But with SBF there are more charges, the losses are so much higher, and things are moving so much faster, so I am not sure.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#239

Post by throwaway0x7E6 »

danielfoster wrote: post #222
fardo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a good chance SBF will be released on bail so he does not have to spend time in detention in NYC. The charges against him are all nonviolent crimes I don’t agree with this theory, as I think it’s rather likely SBF will be viewed as a flight risk. • His heavy involvement in the cryptocurrency space makes it likely he has significant moveable digital cash reserves that cannot be easily seized and which would…

It’s hard to know for sure but I agree. SBF might catch a break for looking innocent and young, but this really is a textbook example of when bail should not be granted. Bail may happen if he ends up cooperating. I’m very interested to see if the parents are charged.

>looking innocent

lol. lmao even

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#240

Post by hnews_account_1 »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #206
bigtones wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Sam Trabucco of FTX is going to be like Lou Pai of Enron. If you resign at exactly the right time and put some distance between you and the fraud, you can get away with it and ride off into the sunset. https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=541142...

Nice comparison. Trabucco resigned in August but Caroline was on record saying he hadn’t been around for months. Some Alameda loans were called in May, and that is when SBF and Caroline did some obviously shady stuff. I think that is when he walked, as that is when the trading strategy became limited to just propping up FTT to fake the balance sheet. He seemed like a legit trader based on his Twitter. It takes about…

He made several stupid claims on his twitter about trading that anyone in the industry would immediately infer was a complete misunderstanding of the basics of finance. As did SBF and Caroline. Nothing about them was smart. It was a lot of jargon thrown into their talk that should tickle most people’s spidey senses.
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