Earlier quoted context omitted.
In some countries almost every street is named after a person, so it would be too much trouble to research every street name. We have a square named after indian city of Bangalore - the Bangalore square. I was sure for a long time that's just another (jewish?) surname. Even though I knew that city, in context of street names I simply assume surnames, it didn't occur to me to think anything else.
We had a Minsk Square in Bangalore too. They are sister cities
Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
31–40 of 125 posts
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well it’s different as in this case it’s translated from a Cyrillic alphabet. Also, I would be surprised to read Köln in English as an English name exists for the city: Cologne.
This is not transliteration. It would be "pyotr" then. This is just using a German letter in an English text based on a purely visual similarity to a Russian letter. This is wrong on so many levels...
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m rather surprised he might not be not better known here. Kropotkin is a major figure of anarchism that you’ll found revered even in some Russel's books. Surely hackernews readership red all Russel works — both color, didn’t it? Don’t you search for a Wikipedia biography each time you cross an antonomastic street, creating it if needed?
I’m very familiar with Kropotkin, but not Russel.
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#34It's really weird seeing letter ё in English language title. I'd rather spell his name as "Pyotr Kropotkin" or even "Peter Kropotkin", following a commong convention to spell Russian tzar Pyotr Romanov's as Peter.
I actually like it, it's a great idea. You wouldn't be surprised if you saw words like Köln or Malmö (or even Malmø) in an English text, right, so how is this different?
In your other examples, all the sounds would be considered "o-like" (rather than "e-like") in most languages with a 5-vowel phonology or similar. A reader might not be able to parse the diaresis, but if they say it with a plain "o", it's a reasonable approximation.
But then "ё" in "Пётр" is really just [ʲo] phonetically, so it should, ideally, be reflected by "o" or some derivative glyph in transliteration for readers to be able to understand and pronounce it with any semblance of accuracy. Something like "Pötr" would probably be best, actually, since in most alphabets that have "ö", it's used for [ø] or similar, which would give a more accurate approximation of [ʲo] than just [o].
OTOH the Latin "ë" (when present in the alphabet, which is much rarer to begin with) tends to stand for [ə], so it would be most logical to use it to distinguish "э" from "е". Note that this can be treated as a consistent pattern: a diaresis over the vowel inverts its "default" frontness (front vowels become back, back vowels become front) to simulate the corresponding presence or absence of [ʲ]. Thus we can then also write "ä" for "я", "ü" for "ю", and "ï" for "ы".
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#35It's really weird seeing letter ё in English language title. I'd rather spell his name as "Pyotr Kropotkin" or even "Peter Kropotkin", following a commong convention to spell Russian tzar Pyotr Romanov's as Peter.
It’s also common to see it in loan words and proper names, even with a different meaning.
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not transliteration. It would be "pyotr" then. This is just using a German letter in an English text based on a purely visual similarity to a Russian letter. This is wrong on so many levels...
I do not know where the inspiration cam from but that e with inverted commas is not a German letter
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#37Interesting. While reading this, I wondered idly if solidarity might be more acceptable phrasing than mutual aid in the US?
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's different because in English, a diacritic of two dots (diaeresis) is used to show that a vowel is pronounced separately from the vowel that came before it, not as a mix. Naïve is one example, where it is pronounced na-ive, not nive. That said, I also like it, but it means something different here.
> in English, a diacritic of two dots (diaeresis) is used to show that a vowel is pronounced separately from the vowel that came before it, not as a mix. You've correctly defined diaeresis, but it's not actually used in English except in articles that get published in The New Yorker . There is a reason the common English name for the diacritic is "umlaut". The normal use in English is to show that a word comes from G…
I can't think of any such examples similar to "naïve". Stuff like "ü" shows up in German names - and that's because the modern English convention is to not transliterate names that are already spelled in some kind of Latin script, even if it means dealing with weird digraphs, diacritics, or letters like ð. This doesn't work for Cyrillic, though.
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#39It's really weird seeing letter ё in English language title. I'd rather spell his name as "Pyotr Kropotkin" or even "Peter Kropotkin", following a commong convention to spell Russian tzar Pyotr Romanov's as Peter.
Re: Pëtr Kropotkin and Mutual Aid
#40Interesting. While reading this, I wondered idly if solidarity might be more acceptable phrasing than mutual aid in the US?