Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF • Hacker News Board

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#221

Post by LatteLazy » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 9:53 AM UTC

lordfrito wrote: post #41

Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Usually this stuff takes forever as evidence is carefully gathered. Curious if anyone has any insights here.

Some crimes are inherently hard to prosecute. Fraud for instance requires you to prove intent. International fraud is a mine field of overlapping jurisdictions and definitions and legal systems etc.

Other crimes are very easy: misleading (prospective) investors just requires that you fail to disclose something. No need to prove intent, even something very small will do. And as long as there is at least some connection to the US, US courts will hear the case.

Prosecuting SBF for defrauding customers would take years. But getting him for failure to disclose to investors (which seems to be what they're after) is really easy. So they're powering through.

They also now have 2 co-operating witnesses.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#222

Post by danielfoster » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 9:55 AM UTC

fardo wrote: post #214

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #193

There is a good chance SBF will be released on bail so he does not have to spend time in detention in NYC. The charges against him are all nonviolent crimes. The question I have is if the judge releases him from custody, "Will SBF do more interviews?" Lots of people are speculating on sentencing, some are comparing SBF to Holmes, but IMHO it's likely in this case he is going to plead guilty. Whatever comes out in a c…

>There is a good chance SBF will be released on bail so he does not have to spend time in detention in NYC. The charges against him are all nonviolent crimes I don’t agree with this theory, as I think it’s rather likely SBF will be viewed as a flight risk. • His heavy involvement in the cryptocurrency space makes it likely he has significant moveable digital cash reserves that cannot be easily seized and which would…

It’s hard to know for sure but I agree. SBF might catch a break for looking innocent and young, but this really is a textbook example of when bail should not be granted. Bail may happen if he ends up cooperating.

I’m very interested to see if the parents are charged.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#223

Post by vgatherps » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 9:56 AM UTC

timmytokyo wrote: post #61

HN_is_for_gemes wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SBF would have scammed with anything instrument, only the media and gov wants you to believe it had anything to do with crypto

Cryptocurrency is, in many ways, especially useful for fraud. It's relatively anonymous, which makes transactions between individuals more difficult to track. It's unregulated, so there are fewer safeguards against fraud. It's complex, so scammers are able to prey on more people who don't fully understand it. And it's unprotected, in the sense that consumers usually have no recourse in the event that they are scammed…

> It's unregulated, so there are fewer safeguards against fraud

I work in traditional finance and this imo is a major reason why - the GP is right in that nothing about the fraud was crypto related. But today you could never run an equities brokerage with such absurd lack of anything related to operational competence and customer protections.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#224

Post by danielfoster » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 9:56 AM UTC

Aaronstotle wrote: post #105

What about the previous CEO of Alameda, Sam Trabucco? Caroline only took over recently, I haven't heard anything about his legal standing at this point.

I’m sure there will be other charges coming as more information is gleaned. I’m very curious to see if the parents are charged.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#225

Post by danielfoster » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 9:59 AM UTC

mlla wrote: post #159

Aaronstotle wrote: post #105

What about the previous CEO of Alameda, Sam Trabucco? Caroline only took over recently, I haven't heard anything about his legal standing at this point.

I was wondering about Trabucco as well. His name is nowhere to be seen, but he was leading Alameda together with Caroline up until last summer. If SBF is also going for plea bargain, will various government institutions ask from him to get some dirt on Tether (and on Binance)? Might be that they are more interested in campaign financing.

An important component of accepting a plea bargain is telling the truth. I was also wondering if SBF might be used as a witness for other cases. I think his reliability is a major concern for any testimony.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#226

Post by xxr » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough.

[0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#227

Post by pclmulqdq » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

xxr wrote: post #226

They all could have just been basic rich people pulling $600k[0] a year at Jane Street, but they just couldn’t get enough. [0]This number is completely made up and betrays my total lack of knowledge about what finance people make.

Early career it's less than that unless you have done something exceptional for them and threatened to leave.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#228

Post by MrOwnPut » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 10:10 AM UTC

allenbrunson wrote: post #198

corndoge wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no such things as benevolent billionaires. Interesting thesis, do you have any reasoning to support your claim?

i'll take a crack at it: the act of accumulating a billion dollars is an anti-social act. billionaires should have been giving it away hand over fist long before that happened.

They own part of the company that is worth that much.

They can't liquidate all their assets without harming the company, thus the livelihoods of their employees.

Look at what they create, not only what they are worth.

Also your charity endeavors are more effective with the compound interest of a billionaire vs a multi-millionaire.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#229

Post by pharmakom » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

TotoHorner wrote: post #104

somethoughts wrote: post #39

Too bad HBO's Silicon Valley isn't still going. The writers would have had a field day.

Unfortunately it seems like almost all the talented writers left after season 3/4. Seasons 1 and 2 were absolutely hysterical and amazing, but by the end the writing got really terrible.

The final season is high quality too. Not sure what happened in the middle.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#230

Post by SilverBirch » Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 10:16 AM UTC

The thing that makes me very uneasy about this is... it's crypto. If you let people walk away with anything less than decades in prison you're setting a bad precedent. Why? Because the entire design of crypto is to allow you to squirrel money away, honestly what are the chances that these guys have some cold wallet lying around with a few million dollars in bitcoin? That's what I'd do if I was running this scam.