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The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

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Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> real mozzarella cheese which is outrageously expensive in the US do you mean the "fresh" stuff they sell in some US stores, in liquid? Or the bufalo? I actually did a 1/2 and 1/2 test with a friend, half bufalo mozz & half standard shrink-wrapped mozz. He preferred the bufalo, I was meh. The interesting thing was, the bufalo had so much moisture that it soaked through the crust. At least the shrink-wrapped stuff is…

Pardon me I meant the "fresh" stuff they sell in US stores is outrageously expensive, ~$10/lb. I don't really know what Bufalo is but the stuff I'm talking about would be fairly moist too, you need to use the cheese sparingly or else it will create a puddle on the surface.

Italians may use mozz made from water buffalo milk. I guess I spelled it wrong: two f's:

https://www.delightedcooking.com/what-is-buffalo-mozzarella....

I don't think it's very often used in the US.

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#112
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The combination of ham and pineapple on a pizza can be very tasty because the sweet and tangy flavor of the pineapple complements the savory and salty flavor of the ham. The combination of these two flavors can create a delicious balance on the pizza. Additionally, the texture of the pineapple can add a nice contrast to the softness of the cheese and the chewiness of the ham. Many people also enjoy the way the flavor…

Don't bring ChatGPT into a pineapple / pepperoni pizza fight.

Turing test

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, somebody needs to prototype a 44 Watt steel slab to cook pizzas with. This is Hacker News, after all. :)

44 watts is not enough. I would say 1100 minimum to cook a good pizza.

It all depends on the size of the pizza. Make one with a diameter of 3 cm and those 44 watts are more than sufficient.

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#114
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> steels seem to get better results In a multi-purpose electrical kitchen oven, sure. In a hotter, dedicated gas pizza oven such as a Ooni or Roccbox, the supplied ceramic stone works perfectly, and a steel would cook too fast.

Yes. When we first got our baking steel I tried putting it on our outdoor gas grill as it can get up a bit over 700F. Let that thing heat up for a good hour, put the pizza on the steel and nearly burned myself from the steam that came off. Result was a charred bottom crust and raw top crust. Granted part of that was because the grill itself doesn't heat from the top as well as a real oven. Now we use the steel only i…

> Now we use the steel only in the oven, which gets up to about 525-550F, and our outdoor Ooni.

Should I read that as "we use the steel only in (the oven, and our outdoor Ooni)" or "we use (the steel only in the oven), and our outdoor Ooni".

If it's the former, then why, and how?

If the latter, have you considered using a semicolon as high-precedence comma, e.g. "Now we use the steel only in the oven, which gets up to about 525-550F; and our outdoor Ooni."

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#115
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to do that. It's also too bad that you can't manually engage the lock as a safety feature.

You definitely can manually set the lock at least on most ovens I’ve seen in the UK and Europe, it’s sometimes not obvious but they do have a “child lock” just like most electric cooking hobs.

Most ovens, including mine, have a child lock function, but at least on mine it does not engage the physical door lock (ie. you can still open the oven door), it just locks out the controls.

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#116
post #77

How do you move your pizza from the shovel to the stone/oven? Its so sticky.. I keep failing at this resulting in dirty oven or calzones… to the point that I am back at using backing paper and giving up in the stone.

The cheat code is silicone baking mats.

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#117
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any "psrt" in any of that either. It's just that I like those things, a lot. I like music a LOT, and that Italian music is some of what I like the most. A lot of what I included is opera, and I can't sing. But here is some Italian violin music I like a lot: https://youtu.be/kS-W3lfcVvY The girl is pretty, but she is also quite good on violin and especially in this famous Vivaldi music. In my first effort…

Wait until you find out about arancini

Arancini? Never heard of it! Via Google found

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchen/ara...

WOW! They look good. Would be nice to take to the big family Christmas dinner -- we will have one if we are not all snowed in!

While the video looks good, making it good doesn't look easy:

First, uh, at least in that recipe are three cheeses, mozzarella, fontina, and parmesan. I get mozzarella in 5 pound bags, Sam's Club, plainly intended for PIZZA, just pizza, US style pizza, largely independent of whatever is/was done in Italy, but the recipe may prefer the fresh version of mozzarella I've heard about, seen on video clips, but never seen in the real! I've never used or even seen fontina! Parmesan? Okay. Not so cheap. I have some Pecorino Romano I could use as a substitute. It wasn't so cheap, either. And not all Parmesan is the same -- should shop for an appropriate version, maybe in some New York City Italian grocery -- again I've seen on video but never in the real! And should avoid making substitutions -- once start on that are on a road to a lot of work to poor results. Only need 1/2 cup of grated Parmesan -- with the driving, looking for a good version of the real stuff, buying maybe only 2 pounds of it, etc., are looking at the 1/2 cup of Parmesan in the actual dish as served at, what, $100 a pound???

Pine nuts? Heard about them. Don't think I ever saw or ate any!!!

Then there is the "fresh parsley" -- hmm, in the winter? I have a big bottle of Tone's dry parsley and include some of that in my rough guesses at tomato sauce for pizzas, but it doesn't seem to add much flavor. So, I'd want fresh parsley instead of the dried. Maybe some high end grocer would have a good version of that. Could drive all around town looking for that! For the parsley in the final dish, looking at what, $500 a pound???

Then there is the arborio rice. Gee, I have some rice. It's just -->>RICEarborio. I've never seen it and don't know what it is!!!

And the chicken broth -- yup, that can be good! I try to avoid the salty little cubes or even the canned stuff and, and for this recipe with pine nuts, etc., would want to start with, gee, some actual chicken! In the US that should be really, REALLY easy since there are lots of retired hens from the egg industry and since the grocers like to sell just chicken pieces, especially skinless, boneless, breast pieces, chicken wings, and each of those should generate lots of backs, necks, ribs, and skin great for broth. Grocers could be selling 5 pound sacks of frozen necks, backs, ribs, skin for broth, but they don't! And I don't have any chickens running around in my back yard!

The broth situation is much the same, not easy, also for beef broth, and finally I just gave up and use canned beef consomme -- definitely the high end, Monte Carlo, 5 star Michelin, platinum version of "beef broth"!!!

Similarly for beef for stew: There is a remark in one of Escoffier's books that old cattle give better flavors for broth, stock, stew, etc. AND the US has plenty of old cattle, retired from dairy farms. Sooooo, for beef stock, where to buy the leg bones of old cattle? For beef stock, are supposed to roast and brown the leg bones and then put them in the water. Or for beef stew, where to buy, say, a bottom round roast from old cattle? Uh, not from USDA Prime, Choice, or Select -- all from young cattle!

Yup, the old cattle are, say, USDA Commercial. Google it all you want -- can't find it at retail and can't even find it mentioned for sale anywhere.

Once I just called a packing house and asked what happens to old cattle, and the answer was "think fast food". Soooo, Burger King gets what Escoffier recommended, and I can't!!

Uh, Walmart sells 80% lean ground beef in 5 pound plastic wrapped tubes. They are not packed locally but are shipped from some plant in Missouri. Hmm .... Bet they use the cheapest beef they can, e.g., USDA Commercial, Cutter and Canners, etc. Soooo, that ground beef is likely some of the best flavored beef available at retail at any price, and that means that the Fake Steak Diane I outlined has an advantage!!!

Ah, to honor Escoffier, go to Walmart!!!

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#118
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pizza gets a bad rap healthwise, but when it's made at home it can be perfectly healthy. I make flatbread and use that as the pizza crust. Then everybody in the family gets to put their choice of toppings on. It's a bit of a circus as you can only bake one pizza at a time in our 24" oven, but circuses are fun. The advantage of the flatbread is all you really have to do is get the toppings hot and cheese melted, as th…

Got any good recipe for flatbread ? I tried few but kinda got mildly dissatisfied with most I tried. Or annoyed that they took enough work that I might as well be making pizza. I got food processor nearly just to make pizza dough without much mess. Just one big batch that then gets mostly frozen after for fast pizza on upcoming weeks. Flatbreads I prefer to use as base for essentially a grilled sandwich or to put som…

>Got any good recipe for flatbread

I don't remember where I got this, but I have it memorized.

6 C bread flour 4 tsp rapid rise yeast (breadmaker yeast) 2 tsp salt 2 tsp sugar 2 Tbsp olive oil

Mix 5 C flour, yeast, salt, sugar and oil in stand mixer or by hand. Add the last cup of flour (or possibly more, depends on temp and humidity, etc) until the dough is no longer sticky.

Dump out dough, knead by hand a bit until it's soft and smooth. Add flour as needed. Make a ball, put in greased bowl, spray top with cooking spray, cover with towel and let rise until doubled, about an hour.

Dump out risen dough, punch down and knead a bit more, then divide into 16 pieces (8 if you're doing pizza crust sizes). Make balls from the pieces, cover with towel, and let rise a second time, about 30 mins.

Flatten out balls into rounds, can use a rolling pin but can also do by hand. Gently stretch to reach desired size. Cook the bread on a cast iron griddle or pan set to medium to medium high heat, about 1-2 mins per side.

Kids love every step of this process. You're supposed to be able to freeze the flatbread if you want, but I never have because it's gone in a couple of days, as I have a big family. I also use 3 Tbsp of olive oil instead of 2 for the extra fat calories. Most of the sugar is used up by the yeast, this is not at all sweet. You can certainly add herbs or whatever, but we use these for gyros, mini pizzas, dipping in hummus or tzatziki, pita mozz, that sort of thing.

It's dead easy, and as I said, if you do it with kids it's great fun.

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> real mozzarella cheese which is outrageously expensive in the US do you mean the "fresh" stuff they sell in some US stores, in liquid? Or the bufalo? I actually did a 1/2 and 1/2 test with a friend, half bufalo mozz & half standard shrink-wrapped mozz. He preferred the bufalo, I was meh. The interesting thing was, the bufalo had so much moisture that it soaked through the crust. At least the shrink-wrapped stuff is…

Pardon me I meant the "fresh" stuff they sell in US stores is outrageously expensive, ~$10/lb. I don't really know what Bufalo is but the stuff I'm talking about would be fairly moist too, you need to use the cheese sparingly or else it will create a puddle on the surface.

The mozzarella cheese I use is from Sam's Club. I just checked, and what I use is

"Maker's Mark Part Skim Shredded Mozzarella Cheese (5 lbs.)

$14.67 $2.93/lb"

Soooo, a lot less than $10/pound!

What if anything that Maker's Mark cheese has to do with anything from/in Italy, I don't know!

To have the cheese keep without mold, I keep it frozen. When I'm making a pizza and put on the mozzarella, it is still frozen. Right, when the heat for the cooking starts, still frozen! Works fine! The Teflon sheet lets the top of the pizza and the cheese get hot before burning the bottom of the crust.

In the US, pizza, in all its versions, is a big industry, a significant part of the diet of 300+ million people. BIG!

So, we're not talking a grandmother in a rustic kitchen in the hills of a small, rural town in Italy!!!

I omitted but might include: For applying the heat, I put the cast iron frying pan, covered, on one of the large burners of my 4 burner US electric stove. The burners are, as I recall, from GE or some such -- some big US company anyway. And I've seen them from the same source on other electric stoves. Soooo, if you have an electric stove, there's a good chance you have the same burner elements.

Then for the burner there is a dial. Viewing the dial as a clock face, 12 o'clock is OFF. 1 o'clock is the highest power. 6 o'clock is medium power. For cooking pizza, I use about 8 o'clock and 22 minutes. Then the toppings are hot. The cheese is melted. The crust is cooked with the edges puffy. And the bottom of the crust is browned but not burned. 23 minutes can be too long, burn the bottom crust and have the melted cheese running over the sides of the crust. 20 minutes, maybe the cheese is not yet melted. On your stove, likely you should watch carefully until you have the time and temperature about right!

Re: The Physics of baking good Pizza (2018)

#120
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like just put a round ball of dough and press it ? I might try it, shaping the dough into round shape is my least favourite part > There are rumors that if had the salt in the water and yeast for 1+ hours, the salt would kill the yeast. As much as I have researched that it's that some level of salt would do that but level below that would just slow the yeast down. I'd be more worried with 1h+ in water it would just n…

> I might have not discerning enough taste but I honestly can't tell between 1 day or 2 day dough I do sourdough, so I use a levain not a dry yeast, but I have done many 2-day doughs (48 hours rest in the fridge) and many 1-day doughs (24 hours in the fridge), and yes, I can easily tell the difference, and I prefer the 2-day dough, and will always do that timeline when schedule permits. Serious eats reached similar c…

I'd like to try some yeast that gives more flavor than the Fleischmann's active dry yeast I use. But, I don't want to invest time or effort looking for a yeast with "more flavor"!!

I've heard claims that the usual US yeast is of strains selected for the US bread industry and where the main objective is a reliable, big, fast rise with little or no flavor!

Sooooo, again, the US goes for some high industrial productivity with little attention to artisan considerations!!!

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