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Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

nytimes.com

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Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#111

It's hard for me to fathom being so privileged and then essentially throwing away your life. I have no idea what they were thinking.

They almost certainly did not think anything they were doing was wrong. Effective altruism and utilitarianism is one helluva drug

Sorry but no. They absolutely know what they were doing was wrong. They just felt right about it. Don't make excuses for white collar criminals.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#112
post #10

SEC Complaint with more details. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-234 I have read more SEC complaints this year than in all of my previous years combined. —- Edit 1 Caroline’s guilty plea: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...

110 years! I wonder how many she'll get out of that for being the first out of the woodwork.

David Friehling was up for 100 years for the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme but because of cooperation did not serve any time in prison IIRC, just supervised release or home detention.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that there is some agreement for say 5 years recommended is not on the table in this type of situation. That is absolutely the situation. That’s why you take the deal. They got her to plead to seven counts! There’s almost certainly an agreed-upon recommended sentencing.

Please just read the plea deal. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...

I think you’re hung up on the number of years thing. The whole reason you cooperate is to get a reduced sentence. So of course that’s part of the deal. That’s the point of it. The formal agreement isn’t going to spell out “we will recommend X years” for a lot of reasons. First, what if she doesn’t cooperate? Or worse, lies and impedes the prosecution? More importantly, having a set-in-stone agreement like that for a specified number of years undermines your witness. And from the government’s perspective that’s the whole reason they do the deal: to have a witness.

Imagine Caroline Ellison on the witness stand. “Ms. Ellison you were looking at charges that could bring 110 years of prison or more, is that correct? And how many years did the prosecutor’s office agree to recommend instead in exchange for your testimony today?” There’s really no good answer, is there? The best answer your witness can give in that situation is something along the lines of “I’m cooperating with the hopes that the prosecution will recommend leniency to the court at my sentencing.” So that’s exactly the situation they’ve put her in. They’re under no obligation, per the agreement, but it’s absolutely on the table. And, assuming she holds up her end of the bargain, they will definitely file a motion with the court to have her sentence drastically reduced. Although the judge will be free to ignore it.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In its complaint, the S.E.C. said Ms. Ellison, under direction from Mr. Bankman-Fried, had manipulated the price of a digital currency that FTX created, called FTT, by buying large quantities to prop up its price. Alameda was one of the major firms that was trading FTT and had used the crypto token as collateral for loans it got from other big crypto firms to fund its trading. FTT is on the Ethereum Blockchain.

Yes, just like the FTX website is on the internet. So, do you blame the HTTP protocol for every online scam? Anyone can put scam token on Ethereum, just like anyone can publish a website. It has no relevance to Ethereum whatsoever. What the poster meant was that the FTX, the organization, was not an Ethereum protocol , it was just a centralized financial institution that published some random token.

That's not at all what OP said:

> Nothing here happened on a blockchain. If it had there wouldn't have been problems.

My response addresses their point exactly. FTT being on the blockchain did not solve the problems, and she is specifically being charged with fraudulent on-chain activity (not just fraud on the edges).

As for the protocols, I don't blame the technology, I blame the culture. The culture that surrounds crypto is uniquely prone to perpetuating scams. That's not the fault of the technologists who started the movement, it's what happened when crypto became a gold rush.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#115

Too bad HBO's Silicon Valley isn't still going. The writers would have had a field day.

I think the actual crypto story lines are too preposterous to be funny. :)

They had some on Mythic Quest this season that were surpassed by reality before they aired.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#116

It's hard for me to fathom being so privileged and then essentially throwing away your life. I have no idea what they were thinking.

it's exactly because they're so privileged. If you ever see posh people being arrested for incredibly stupid white collar crime it's usually because they live on the assumption that nothing is ever so serious that someone can't bail you out of.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#117

SEC Complaint with more details. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-234 I have read more SEC complaints this year than in all of my previous years combined. —- Edit 1 Caroline’s guilty plea: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...

Interesting: On page 4, there's a section listing out the crimes she will not be further prosecuted for. As you'd expect this includes the 7 counts listed earlier, but there's also an 8th section that's been redacted. Any ideas on what this could be referring to?

I assumed it was related to campaign finance because that is noticeably absent but it’s possible she/Alameda weren’t involved in that aspect of the grift.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#118

SEC Complaint with more details. https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-234 I have read more SEC complaints this year than in all of my previous years combined. —- Edit 1 Caroline’s guilty plea: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...

Interesting: On page 4, there's a section listing out the crimes she will not be further prosecuted for. As you'd expect this includes the 7 counts listed earlier, but there's also an 8th section that's been redacted. Any ideas on what this could be referring to?

I suspect she had some involvement with the campaign contributions which SBF is facing charges. My guess is it details some facts about her involvement, and then says she won’t be charged assuming major new facts don’t emerge.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#119

Too bad HBO's Silicon Valley isn't still going. The writers would have had a field day.

I think the actual crypto story lines are too preposterous to be funny. :)

I think while the casting of SBF character would be hilarious, the casting of the Caroline Ellison character would take it over the top.
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