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Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

nytimes.com

51–60 of 338 posts

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#51

Any ideas why these prosecutions are moving forward so fast? Usually this stuff takes forever as evidence is carefully gathered. Curious if anyone has any insights here.

Literally because they have found two cooperating witnesses, who have provided much of the information prosecutors need to convict Mr. SBF.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing she gets is the prosecution agrees to tell the court she cooperated. That is the deal. It's a cooperating plea deal; prosecutors will accept a much smaller sentence (out of the very wide ranges available) if they follow through on the coperating part.

Exactly. People were throwing out potential immunity, or other complete nonsense for cooperation. There weren’t even discussions about recommended prison time as that can blow the prosecutions case against SBF. The idea that there is some agreement for say 5 years recommended is not on the table in this type of situation.

> People were throwing out potential immunity...

Yes, getting off scot-free seems unlikely.

> The idea that there is some agreement for say 5 years recommended is not on the table in this type of situation.

Sure it is. The Feds will ask to suspend sentencing on these charges until their cooperation is completed. If they cooperate appropriately, they'll spend much less time in prison than if they'd pled not guitly.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, crypto was only peripherally related to the legacy financial fraud. But everyone, including this site, wants you to think this was a, "crypto bro's" scam, SBF was NOT a crypto bro, he was a rich kid.

What disqualifies him as being cryptobro?

Many things.

But for one, he lobbied for a future where individuals would no longer legally be able to use blockchains directly or build businesses on them (aside from pure direct person-to-person payments).

Doesn't get much less "cryptobro" than lobbying against people being able to use blockchains.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#54

In previous discussions, I said there was a 0% chance she got some sort of deal. I was downvoted to hell, but this guilty plea shows how it works in real life, not TV. The deal is you cooperate voluntarily and the court is allowed to provide sentencing leniency. The only thing she gets is the prosecution agrees to tell the court she cooperated.

Why is she's out on bail if she has already plead guilty? What's the next step for her?

She will be sentenced after SBF. If all goes well for her, there will be few victim impact statements at her sentencing.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#56
post #21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "maximum" sentence here isn't even a theoretical maximum; it's just what happens if you take the statutory limit on what could be sentenced in the worst possible combination of circumstances , and it assumes that charges don't group or get served concurrently. It's annoying that they cite this number at all, because it simply has no bearing as to how things get sentenced in reality.

Isn’t the size of the fraud one of the major factors in the guidelines? If so, it may not be 110 years, but it’s got to be a big number?

Guidelines are just that, guidelines. Judges have a lot of latitude.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#57
This was inevitable. All their money and reputation is gone. They stand to face many decades in prison. What choice do they have. Anyone who engages in financial fraud should prepare for all their friends to rat them out. There are no friends.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#58
post #32
post #22

> Both were involved in effective altruism — a community focused on using data to maximize the long-term impact of charitable donations. > She got into crypto, she explained on another episode, because she was hoping to make lots of money to give away as part of her commitment to effective altruism. Should the term be capitalized, as Effective Altruism ? It seems to be a new, branded definition, and not in common usa…

I also can’t think of Effective Altruism without thinking of the inverse radical Objectivism. I don’t agree with Ayn Rand’s amateur philosophizing [1] but it’s a great example of using the Rational vs Altruistic dichotomy for extreme ideological ends. Both just happen to be able to justify the acquisition of infinite capital without typical counter-weights that society puts forward… and inversely to justify authorita…

Interesting insight.

Sometimes it seems like the ultra wealthy need some sort of story to tell themselves (and others) as to why they are different, why they have earned and deserve these vast richest, etc. Philosophy more and more seems to be a rich mans game. Wonder if it has anything to do with Imposter Syndrome? As if preaching a philosophy can somehow make up for the ruthlessness (and I have to believe some emptiness) underneath it all?

Also, there seems to be an element of fashion involved. Like when it was in vogue for celebrities to adopt foreign kids (only to have them raised by nannies). Gotta virtue signal. Maybe that explains why the beliefs come and go, Objectivism was so last year, etc.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#59
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SBF would have scammed with anything instrument, only the media and gov wants you to believe it had anything to do with crypto

If people will run scams in crypto the same as they'll run scams in tradfi - shouldn't they be regulated the same, too?

Well they’re being arrested and sent to jail, so that’s a form of regulation.

Re: Caroline Ellison and Gary Wang are cooperating in the criminal case against SBF

#60
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, it seems that earn to give isnt the best way. Billionaires like Jeff Bezos got that way by building a very successful organization that helps a lot of consumers (being able to do so thanks yo wage slavery until automation started kicking in). Since then, it has grown a lot and Bezos has to do nothing to reap the benefits but keep his shares. But just because Bezos built one great thing that helps so many c…

There are no such things as benevolent billionaires. There’s a problem with a society that enables billionaires to exist at all. It shouldn’t even be possible but we’re here for a lot of reasons. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cu6EbELZ6I

> There are no such things as benevolent billionaires.

Interesting thesis, do you have any reasoning to support your claim?

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