Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#61

Post by rr808 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:06 PM UTC

prewett wrote: post #54

ryandrake wrote: post #27

I think a lot of younger people in the workforce today have never witnessed a bear market or a real tech downturn, where literally nobody was hiring, like the first dotCom crash and to a lesser extent the 2008 one. I'd argue that no amount of "skills" or networking are going to help in that macroeconomic environment. Instead, you need an F-you financial cushion because you _will_ be helplessly out of work for an exte…

> a real tech downturn, where literally nobody was hiring, like the first dotCom crash I lost my job during the .com bust, in 2002, I think. There were plenty of software development jobs, even within my city. I was pretty junior, no CS degree (but I did have a science bachelors). I applied to one or two a week, found a job within three or four months. I was also looking for work sometime around 2009. Again, found a…

> found a job within three or four months

I think this is unexpected for lots of young developers out there. Lots of devs have experienced nothing other than multiple offers within a few weeks of looking.

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#62

Post by rr808 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:10 PM UTC

kthejoker2 wrote: post #59

TylerE wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are these people living on $40k/yr, and what size cardboard box do they live in?

40 might be a bit of a stretch with inflation, but even with 4 kids and a dog my yearly expenditures to live in a very nice (3800 sqft) house with 2 (paid for) cars is only about $67k/year. $37k mortgage $15k bills - electric, water, Internet, car insurance, cell phones, etc. $15k - food, gasoline, clothing, haircuts, other "necessities" (many of which are not) Then of course there's vacations, Christmas/birthdays, a…

> only about $67k/year.

Which is >100k/year before tax which is well above median household earnings.

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#63

Post by rr808 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:11 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #51

ilikecakeandpie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a roommate, a paid off used car, and a not extravagant lifestyle in a smaller city/town, it's not impossible. It ain't as easy as it was ~8 years ago when I was doing that though

That’s not living if you’re making 200k a year. A roommate? Seriously?

Maybe this is an American thing? I lived with roommates until mid-thirties, was pretty normal in London.

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#64

Post by BigRedDog1669 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:17 PM UTC

F-You skills are not technical in nature (above a certain level of competence and willingness to work that most people in tech jobs have). They are people skills and a basic safety net.

For me they seem to be:

1. Having an emergency fund and plan that can last you 6-9 months if you get fired or burnt out. Think about your expenses and get rid of ones that you don't want. Plan out if you'd need to downsize some things or make changes. Having a good buffer will help you be less stressed out if your work gets really shitty (you can quit) or if you get fired (you won't be wondering how to pay rent while interviewing).

2. Being generally pleasant at work.

3. Don't spread stress and bad feelings. If you are stressed out and someone asks for help, help them or tell them when you can in the future in a positive way. Don't complain about things over and over.

4. Keep loosely in touch with people you got along with at jobs, you might be able to help each other in the future.

5. Be willing to grind to get a job if your network can't help you in the future. Start practicing interview questions and applying when you notice a lot of frustration in a job, not just when have 100% decided to leave. This will get you prepared and also can help you feel agency that might make you realize you don't want to leave the job.

6. Work on your psychology to gain confidence. You deserve to have a decent life as much as anyone. Your work or pay isn't a reflection of your value, but if you enjoy the work, that's great, it doesn't always happen.

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#65

Post by ge96 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:19 PM UTC

not there yet but my goal is to create side income to match my basic needs

I have the fear though due to debt

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#66

Post by theandrewbailey » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:37 PM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #10

not_the_fda wrote: post #7

1. Live below your means. 2. Have 6+ months living expenses in cash equivalent. 3. Build retirement / investment savings. 4. Build skills and be able to demonstrate you can ship product. I've seen many co-workers get laid off in my career, they all landed back on their feet.

>1. Live below your means. Take this seriously. Make sure you invest the surplus cash in an index fund. In time you'll have enough money to not fear a job loss. There's a lot of freedom in that. Keep in mind that most of the stuff you want ends up in the trash or on some shelf collecting dust. So, think twice about what you buy.

> Make sure you invest the surplus cash in an index fund.

That depends on what you eventually want to use the money for. Don't put your 6 month emergency fund in stocks or index funds! If you get laid off along with everyone else, stocks will be down, and that means the money you set aside for an emergency is gone!

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#67

Post by 0x008 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:38 PM UTC

mikrl wrote: post #46

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

Good reputation and a healthy network. Having the skills to do the technical work is only part of the answer. I've met a lot of brilliant programmers in my career who were not good at following through on commitments, delivering work, working with others, or leaving old workplaces without burning bridges. On the other hand, I've known a lot of good-but-not-great programmers who were great to work with, made sure they…

>the trap of thinking that social skills are "bullshit" At some point I thought this way because I wasn’t good at them and was too anxious to even attempt to work on them. Then I realized - ‘programming’ humans is really fun, especially when you can improve them :) - everything else you and I do in our lives is related (directly or indirectly) to social status, so why not eliminate inefficiencies by using social skil…

Do you have any resources you might recommend?

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#68

Post by User23 » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

One obvious skill is money management. Anyone who has been at a tech company with competitive compensation for at least a year and doesn't have a minimum of one to two months of runway without unemployment, and far more with, is objectively bad at personal finance and needs to immediately shore up that skill.

Also, realize that the burnt out bum shooting up and shitting out on the street in San Francisco literally has F-you money. It's not really that admirable a goal. You should instead be figuring out what you can do to be useful to others. As an employee, that means being useful to employers. As an entrepreneur that means being useful to some subset of the population at large.

Generally speaking programming proficiency will get you a life of relative comfort, and reliably has through the past several economic downturns. There are lots of ways to specialize if that's what you're interested in. For example SRE skills are in generally wide demand.

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#69

Post by upghost » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:17 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #21

I do feel that I have "FU Skills", and probably have for a good 10+ years (I'm in my early 40s now). However, getting jobs is more than that. Or, rather, getting and keeping a job is more than that, and that's where I worry I'm lacking sometimes. While I wouldn't flat-out say I don't work well with others, my patience has gradually gotten worse and worse over the years. At my last company, I think I likely developed…

Can we start a support group for this, please?

I think “AA” is already taken.

For real though, thanks for mentioning this. It is something I struggle with. I know I’m not “supposed” to be like that. I read the comments in HN. I read the books. I read the blog posts. Hell, my undergrad was at Temple U’s college of education in small group dynamics and conflict resolution. I know how I am “supposed” to act. And yet, I am still “that guy” as if being “that guy” were my job.

Re: Ask HN: How to build F-You Skills

#70

Post by TylerE » Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 10:23 PM UTC

rr808 wrote: post #62

kthejoker2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 might be a bit of a stretch with inflation, but even with 4 kids and a dog my yearly expenditures to live in a very nice (3800 sqft) house with 2 (paid for) cars is only about $67k/year. $37k mortgage $15k bills - electric, water, Internet, car insurance, cell phones, etc. $15k - food, gasoline, clothing, haircuts, other "necessities" (many of which are not) Then of course there's vacations, Christmas/birthdays, a…

> only about $67k/year. Which is >100k/year before tax which is well above median household earnings.

Not to mention I see no mention of healthcare costs. I - a single 30-something with some chronic issues, easily spend $5k on healthcare a year - more if I get hospitalized, which has happened 3 times in the decade.

That’s not even counting the portion that comes out of my check.