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I still use Flash

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Re: I still use Flash

#131

Post by dj_mc_merlin »

CharlesW wrote: post #128
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #96

I remember creating a simple "catch the falling X" game in Flash 20 years ago. It was basic, but had everything you'd expect in a beginner project: points, multiple game states/screens, a victory condition, basic story (which was just a screen at the beginning, like NES). The thing is, I was a literal child and I also had no clue how to code -- I did everything by following tutorials and gluing together code I copy&p…

> It blows my mind that no one has made a tool like that in so long. […] Why has the pinnacle of ease of use in game creation been achieved and never replicated since? FWIW it never went away¹ and targets standards-based runtimes these days. I'm sure there are many kids every month having the same kind of epiphanies with it! That being said, because Adobe Animate is marketed as a tool for professionals rather than ki…

I remember when Minecraft was released a bunch of kids had their first Java experience due to the modding scene. Funnily enough I didn't do that since by then I was a C enthusiast and had an irrational hatred towards Java (oh how the turntables..). I wonder if that's still possible now that Microsoft has changed the codebase IIRC?

Re: I still use Flash

#132

Post by ecshafer »

CharlesW wrote: post #128
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #96

I remember creating a simple "catch the falling X" game in Flash 20 years ago. It was basic, but had everything you'd expect in a beginner project: points, multiple game states/screens, a victory condition, basic story (which was just a screen at the beginning, like NES). The thing is, I was a literal child and I also had no clue how to code -- I did everything by following tutorials and gluing together code I copy&p…

> It blows my mind that no one has made a tool like that in so long. […] Why has the pinnacle of ease of use in game creation been achieved and never replicated since? FWIW it never went away¹ and targets standards-based runtimes these days. I'm sure there are many kids every month having the same kind of epiphanies with it! That being said, because Adobe Animate is marketed as a tool for professionals rather than ki…

There is a small but major difference with Flash vs Minecraft and Roblox. Flash let you create something from scratch (or close to it). You aren't just modding a game, you are making a game or a cartoon. It was fantastic. Minecraft you are limited to the world of minecraft.

Re: I still use Flash

#133

Post by rogual »

adrian17 wrote: post #66
zulu-inuoe wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did mention it. They use it for some of their older games but it seems like Ruffle isn't yet feature-complete with Action Script 3 and thus cannot be used to run their newer games

While Ruffle's AS3 support is still lacking a lot of features, since a couple months ago it's been able to play some simple games that require it. The build used on author's site is from 2021, and I just checked that the latest build is able to play several more AS3 games hosted there. (note: I'm a Ruffle dev)

That's great news! I've been meaning to write a cron script or something to fetch the latest Ruffle every week or so, so thanks for reminding me to do that. Thanks also for your work on Ruffle, it's really great.

Re: I still use Flash

#134

Post by vlunkr »

iKlsR wrote: post #103
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #96

I remember creating a simple "catch the falling X" game in Flash 20 years ago. It was basic, but had everything you'd expect in a beginner project: points, multiple game states/screens, a victory condition, basic story (which was just a screen at the beginning, like NES). The thing is, I was a literal child and I also had no clue how to code -- I did everything by following tutorials and gluing together code I copy&p…

Some of the better years of my life a little over a decade ago were spent on mofunzone playing the stick figure fights with friends. I remember bullet time fighting (matrix clone with swords, guns, slow motion) and there was also an amazing action narrative series called Ray with Southpark themed characters and one of the craziest platformers I ever played called N. I managed to snag some of these a while back and pr…

I really hope all these games a preserved somewhere. There are big movements to preserve old console and PC games, but flash, and possibly to a bigger extent, mobile games seem more overlooked.

I think there's a tendency to look back at these games as trash, but it was a pretty wildly experimental time. Indie games as we know them now weren't really a thing yet.

Re: I still use Flash

#135

Post by segh »

vlunkr wrote: post #134
iKlsR wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the better years of my life a little over a decade ago were spent on mofunzone playing the stick figure fights with friends. I remember bullet time fighting (matrix clone with swords, guns, slow motion) and there was also an amazing action narrative series called Ray with Southpark themed characters and one of the craziest platformers I ever played called N. I managed to snag some of these a while back and pr…

I really hope all these games a preserved somewhere. There are big movements to preserve old console and PC games, but flash, and possibly to a bigger extent, mobile games seem more overlooked. I think there's a tendency to look back at these games as trash, but it was a pretty wildly experimental time. Indie games as we know them now weren't really a thing yet.

Flashpoint has a nice UI and I managed to find many old favorites.

https://bluemaxima.org/flashpoint/

Re: I still use Flash

#136

Post by hutzlibu »

CharlesW wrote: post #128
dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #96

I remember creating a simple "catch the falling X" game in Flash 20 years ago. It was basic, but had everything you'd expect in a beginner project: points, multiple game states/screens, a victory condition, basic story (which was just a screen at the beginning, like NES). The thing is, I was a literal child and I also had no clue how to code -- I did everything by following tutorials and gluing together code I copy&p…

> It blows my mind that no one has made a tool like that in so long. […] Why has the pinnacle of ease of use in game creation been achieved and never replicated since? FWIW it never went away¹ and targets standards-based runtimes these days. I'm sure there are many kids every month having the same kind of epiphanies with it! That being said, because Adobe Animate is marketed as a tool for professionals rather than ki…

"FWIW it never went away¹ and targets standards-based runtimes these days. "

I just tried Adobe Animate recently and nothing worked out of the box or like flash used to.

I basically had to tinker, until even basic animations somewhat worked.

And I even have quite some experience with EaselJS, the target framework, but that didn't helped much.

The power of flash was the ease of use - that is gone.

Re: I still use Flash

#137

Post by thayne »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #131
CharlesW wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It blows my mind that no one has made a tool like that in so long. […] Why has the pinnacle of ease of use in game creation been achieved and never replicated since? FWIW it never went away¹ and targets standards-based runtimes these days. I'm sure there are many kids every month having the same kind of epiphanies with it! That being said, because Adobe Animate is marketed as a tool for professionals rather than ki…

I remember when Minecraft was released a bunch of kids had their first Java experience due to the modding scene. Funnily enough I didn't do that since by then I was a C enthusiast and had an irrational hatred towards Java (oh how the turntables..). I wonder if that's still possible now that Microsoft has changed the codebase IIRC?

It's still possible for the java edition.

Re: I still use Flash

#138

Post by themodelplumber »

keewee7 wrote: post #41

IIRC many 2D animators considered the old Adobe Flash Professional to be one of the best 2D animation tools ever made.

Many 2D illustrators, industrial designers, and graphic designers considered it one of the best 2D drawing tools ever made.

One of my roommates in the heyday of Flash was an industrial designer who was paid by an Italian business to design aftermarket wheels for cars, which he did in Flash. Eventually he figured out a Flash > Studio Max workflow he liked and finished projects in 3D that way.

That guy could draw anything in Flash and preferred it over Illustrator, Photoshop, and Fireworks.

Re: I still use Flash

#139

Post by sosborn »

dkarl wrote: post #123
ilyt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like entire industry at one point decide to optimize UIs for the first 30 minutes of usage and not the years of users using apps once they get familiar with them . "oooh let's not put too many buttons to scare users away", "they got 22 inch screens, let's just waste space for no good reason, it looks modern and airy"

That's the discipline of data-driven business. If 20 people use your app and despise it and are depressed by it, that's better than 19 people using it and loving it. No sentimentality allowed.

How could anyone possibly measure that an app is despised and depresses people (or vice versa)?

Usage can't be it, because I use a ton of software that I despise and get depressed by, but only because I get paid to do so, or the app is so niche there isn't a viable replacement.

Re: I still use Flash

#140

Post by kitd »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #96

I remember creating a simple "catch the falling X" game in Flash 20 years ago. It was basic, but had everything you'd expect in a beginner project: points, multiple game states/screens, a victory condition, basic story (which was just a screen at the beginning, like NES). The thing is, I was a literal child and I also had no clue how to code -- I did everything by following tutorials and gluing together code I copy&p…

I'd add Visual Basic to your "glue bits together" list. After working on C++ & FORTRAN professionally, Visual Basic was like a breath of fresh air. I remember thinking "how could programming be this simple". It felt like cheating.

Ofc, there's an evil undercurrent to the "any non-technical person can use it". We ended up having to support a tool that some "business analyst" had written. My eyes bled.

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