Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 187 posts

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#71

Post by Mistletoe »

Communitivity wrote: post #63
simonswords82 wrote: post #19

Interesting thread on why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned: https://twitter.com/NASAInSight/status/1590736220199735296?c...

I am seeing a lot of comments along the lines of 'windshield wipers?' Cars were invented in 1886, the first windshield wipers became available for them in 1917, 31 years later. That is... - in an environment with plenty of water - not near waterless, - on glass windshields (much less fragile than solar panels), - where we can physically replace the wipers when needed, - where we can adjust if they get stuck, - and wh…

That’s the most bizarre math I’ve ever seen. Once you’ve designed something once it’s a lot faster to design over and over.

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#72

Post by photochemsyn »

simonswords82 wrote: post #19

Interesting thread on why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned: https://twitter.com/NASAInSight/status/1590736220199735296?c...

Given the success of the helicopter drone (Ingenuity) on Mars, I wonder if that's an option for cleaning solar panels - i.e. put a simple rotating brush/fan system on the drone, keep it in a port on the main lander, and every once in a while, launch it and have it land on the solar panels, where it does a roomba routine.

Since drones already expand the abilities of a lander, i.e. exploring the immediate area and collecting samples, this wouldn't be much of an added cost.

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#74

Post by [deleted] »

Communitivity wrote: post #63
simonswords82 wrote: post #19

Interesting thread on why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned: https://twitter.com/NASAInSight/status/1590736220199735296?c...

I am seeing a lot of comments along the lines of 'windshield wipers?' Cars were invented in 1886, the first windshield wipers became available for them in 1917, 31 years later. That is... - in an environment with plenty of water - not near waterless, - on glass windshields (much less fragile than solar panels), - where we can physically replace the wipers when needed, - where we can adjust if they get stuck, - and wh…

[deleted]

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#75

Post by ericbarrett »

logicallee wrote: post #32
simonswords82 wrote: post #19

Interesting thread on why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned: https://twitter.com/NASAInSight/status/1590736220199735296?c...

After reading your note "why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned" I clicked through and as I clicked I was thinking "okay so obviously it is possible for the solar panels to self-clean. prove me wrong." I mean how hard could it be? No way is that an "impossible" task. I went out of it thinking, "yep, look at these excuses we are making for the state of robotics." - the quote is: "A system like t…

I agree with you, and I think the other replies are missing your point. With all the techno-marvels around us, it's a shame that lightweight, reliable robotics that can do something as superficially simple as brush some panels don't exist. Just goes to show how hard the field is, I guess.

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#76

Post by Mistletoe »

simonswords82 wrote: post #19

Interesting thread on why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned: https://twitter.com/NASAInSight/status/1590736220199735296?c...

Who decided to anthropomorphize the rover like that? It’s creepy and honestly scientifically dishonest, like the rover has intelligence and is writing the posts. Something for children, but children hate being fooled like that and being talked down to. It’s something I might expect from the current version of NASA though.

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#78

Post by m4rtink »

blululu wrote: post #46
logicallee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading your note "why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned" I clicked through and as I clicked I was thinking "okay so obviously it is possible for the solar panels to self-clean. prove me wrong." I mean how hard could it be? No way is that an "impossible" task. I went out of it thinking, "yep, look at these excuses we are making for the state of robotics." - the quote is: "A system like t…

I would suspect that the problem is more difficult than you make it out to be. First, Mars is very windy/dusty. Second, there is no water so brushing dust is harder than on earth. Add in the increased static cling and dust ingress into the motors and it is not clear to me that brushing is actually viable on mars without a lot of extra engineering (and teams to figure all this out). I’m sure this decision was made wit…

What about compressing some of the atmosphere and then releasing it repeatedly from close proximity over the dusty panels?

Given the very low atmosphereric pressure on Mars, a bit of gas at terrestrial sea level pressure equivalent would do wonders.

As for downsides - you need a compressor and some filtering to avoid clogging your gas system with dust (thats likely the main obstacle).

Still doable IMHO and I'm sure followup probes and eventually settlements will find how to handle Martian dust efficiently.

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#79

Post by yreg »

bamboozled wrote: post #3
prettyStandard wrote: post #2

I'm confused on why the end state for all these rovers is to loose power because of dust on the solar cells. They did such a good job engineering these things to survive the trip and the conditions in general, but they can't give them "windshield wipers for dust"? Seems like with that minor upgrade they could have much longer lifespan. Can someone enlighten me?

Windshield wipers add weight and complexity but more importantly add to the budget. These things are designed only to serve the mission. This rover was designed to last 1 year and went for 4 so it’s a pretty good result. Some good discussion here [1] on Astronomy Cast regarding this topic and potential solutions NASA is working on. Such as an electrostatic dust blaster. 1. https://podcasts.apple.com/vu/podcast/astron…

The rover was designed to last one Mars year and went for two Mars years. Good result either way.

Re: ‘My power’s low’: NASA’s Insight Mars lander prepares to sign off

#80

Post by m4rtink »

Retric wrote: post #55
logicallee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading your note "why it's not possible for the solar panels to be self cleaned" I clicked through and as I clicked I was thinking "okay so obviously it is possible for the solar panels to self-clean. prove me wrong." I mean how hard could it be? No way is that an "impossible" task. I went out of it thinking, "yep, look at these excuses we are making for the state of robotics." - the quote is: "A system like t…

Most critically, other components are also failing so you don’t get that much more lifespan with unlimited power. A brush doesn’t work well in a zero moisture environment. The dust is horrifically abrasive and brushing it along the panels would cause damage. The added weight would have to be compensated for.

Well, the MERs lasted quite a bit longer & were moving systems. A bit of a shame a static lander can't beat them. :P
Post reply on HN