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A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

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Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#111

Post by _kbh_ »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #110
Jataman606 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "source" is calling Zelensky "the Imperial Puppet" and "comedian"[0], which makes me think it's probably even more biased towards Russia than western media are towards Ukraine. [0] https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1605389284369784832

My understanding is Ukraine was ready to negotiate with Russia by April 2022. Boris Johnson, the former UK prime minister, went to visit [0] around April 9 2022. Thenceforth Zelensky seems to have understood that Ukraine was to fight to the last Ukrainian. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/09/boris-johns...

What actually happened is Ukraine retook Bucha and then when Ukraine saw what Russians did k Bucha they decided negotiations were over.

I don’t blame them either why would you negotiate with the army that’s raping and torturing your civilians?.

There’s no point to negotiation with Russia anyway they don’t abide by international agreements unless it benefits them and even they may break them later.

Any peace outside of an absolute Russian defeat would be temporary and just allow Russia to invade again later.

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#112

Post by sysoleg »

_kbh_ wrote: post #111
taxicabjesus wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is Ukraine was ready to negotiate with Russia by April 2022. Boris Johnson, the former UK prime minister, went to visit [0] around April 9 2022. Thenceforth Zelensky seems to have understood that Ukraine was to fight to the last Ukrainian. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/09/boris-johns...

What actually happened is Ukraine retook Bucha and then when Ukraine saw what Russians did k Bucha they decided negotiations were over. I don’t blame them either why would you negotiate with the army that’s raping and torturing your civilians?. There’s no point to negotiation with Russia anyway they don’t abide by international agreements unless it benefits them and even they may break them later. Any peace outside o…

Zelensky after Bucha ("No Other Choice Than To Talk"): https://www.rferl.org/a/un-zelenskiy-war-crimes-bucha/317863...

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#113

Post by ianklug »

Fuzzwah wrote: post #70

I want to mess around in an oculus quest 2 version of these. Flicking switches and causing meltdowns just to hear and see the alarms firing.

You might enjoy Please Don't Touch Anything [0], a VR puzzle game about operating a cryptic control panel like this.

[0] https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/2706567592751319/

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#114

Post by mindslight »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #110
Jataman606 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "source" is calling Zelensky "the Imperial Puppet" and "comedian"[0], which makes me think it's probably even more biased towards Russia than western media are towards Ukraine. [0] https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1605389284369784832

My understanding is Ukraine was ready to negotiate with Russia by April 2022. Boris Johnson, the former UK prime minister, went to visit [0] around April 9 2022. Thenceforth Zelensky seems to have understood that Ukraine was to fight to the last Ukrainian. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/09/boris-johns...

> Thenceforth Zelensky seems to have understood that Ukraine was to fight

You've given no evidence or argument to back up this implied conspiratorial causality. The simplest explanation is that Johnson told Zelensky that if Ukraine wanted to fight, they would have the support of the UK and the greater West.

Also, how hard is it to imagine that a country that had been subjugated by Russia up until a single generation ago, knows the horrors of such and will do everything possible to avoid ending up there again? The further east you go into previously Soviet countries, the more support there is for Ukraine. If this really were a "both sides" issue, you'd expect the exact opposite.

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#115

Post by VBprogrammer »

TuringTest wrote: post #100
VBprogrammer wrote: post #60

Is it just me that cannot look at one of these photos without trying to work out what each switch does and what each guage is measuring?

I'd say most of us with technical minds will do that. Problem is, figuring out most of them depends on having the thorough user manual at hand to read each gauge or button's purpose; AND understanding what that purpose means, which depends on having an engineering education from the same era when they were built.

I'm not sure you need the manual and an education from that era. When I've read everything I can find about a subject it's surprising how much you can understand. The challenges are often that so many of the systems are kinda uninteresting (gland steam pressure on a turbogenerator for example), only used in specific circumstances (fire control panels) or duplicated (ship controls often have 4+ controls which turn the azipods, not to mention the repeated controls on the bridge wings).

The last time I deducted too much time to this endeavour I started to understand the ballast controls on a O-class submarine...

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#116

Post by thefringthing »

elzbardico wrote: post #105
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hallmark of central planning is that the more technology advances, the more your economy falls apart due to the impossibility of calculating every detail centrally. Good read on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Plenty-Francis-Spufford/dp/155597...

The whole point of Brezhnev reforms was decentralizing and using market signals instead of pure central planning.

I have always wondered about why the Yugoslav system of market socialism didn't succeed. It sounds like Brezhnev was trying to move toward that model.

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#117

Post by zhrvoj »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #63
zhrvoj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was maintaining instrumentation is similar control rooms. The man behind panel. Petrochemical industry, recorders, indicators, alarms, tranducers, pneum. controllers. Mix of pneumatic and electronic technology (thermionic valves mostly). US technology from 50's/60's and it looked the same like this. Remember Taylor 700T chopper stabilized thermocouple transducer, Honeywell, Fisher instrumentation...

Did you ever work with the Honeywell TDC-3000 ?

No. Honeywell TDC's were in other plants - polyethylene, polystyrene. This was old olefin plant. Not any kind of control logic, no computers, no scada. Just control loops for flow, presssure, temperature on the field - with control room indications, and/or PI/PID controllers in the control room. So we could adjust PID loops from control rooms. And most important - there was man in the middle, and his logic! Later I lead maintenance on steam generation plant, and there we also didn't have any visualization of process, just bunch of logic cards in two racks, cards full of CMOS 4000 IC! I loved it. We searched for logic faults looking at the bad xeroxed paper logic circuit schematics!! Checking inputs from field, and deducing why output is not ok, and some valve not actuating. Changing IC's, or repairing cold junctions. People knowing chemical proccess were crucial!

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#118

Post by zhrvoj »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #63
zhrvoj wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was maintaining instrumentation is similar control rooms. The man behind panel. Petrochemical industry, recorders, indicators, alarms, tranducers, pneum. controllers. Mix of pneumatic and electronic technology (thermionic valves mostly). US technology from 50's/60's and it looked the same like this. Remember Taylor 700T chopper stabilized thermocouple transducer, Honeywell, Fisher instrumentation...

Did you ever work with the Honeywell TDC-3000 ?

Can you imagine perfectly stable operational amplifier made with thermionic valves (tubes), ECC81, ECC82, ECC83. Amplifying DC millivolts to stable volts and converting them to pressure 3 - 15 psi, because intrinsic safety circuits were not possible at that time. 4-20mA came later.

Re: A collection of Soviet control rooms (2017)

#119

Post by jimmySixDOF »

Fuzzwah wrote: post #70

I want to mess around in an oculus quest 2 version of these. Flicking switches and causing meltdowns just to hear and see the alarms firing.

Mimic controls are so possible in VR with almost unlimited enhancements. I know they have existing simulators where you stand at a mock control desk in a headset running test cases, but, at some point, it will just make sense to use XR enhanced 3D control centers.
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