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Number Stations and Enigma Stations

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Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#31

Post by bayindirh »

082349872349872 wrote: post #29
nostrilwig wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there are less than in then "golden days", but take a look at https://priyom.org/ to get some first-hand experience. EDIT: This site features a schedule/calendar with links to several webSDR sites, making it very easy the hear some of those transmissions live.

"why do I own a shortwave radio? you see sir, I saw this site priyom.org on th' orange website, and kinda got nerdsniped..." (and in 10th grade, there was this girl I was crushing on who was really into microprinting, so I tried to play cool and wound up with a closet full of photoreducers, and wouldn't you know, that hobby stuck too...)

"why do I own a shortwave radio?"

Well, I'm a licensed ham radio operator.

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#32

Post by TeMPOraL »

geoffeg wrote: post #6

I assume most numbers stations have disappeared in part due to the proliferation of global internet access. But I've kinda wondered, how does that work? One of the benefits of numbers stations is that it was nearly impossible to determine who was listening to a shortwave radio station. Any internet resource someone visits would be traceable by the government. Even with SSL nearly everywhere it's not nearly as anonymo…

I don't think they need the Internet. If you look at frequency hopping in military radios, and how GPS receivers pluck out the signal from below thermal noise floor, it seems entirely plausible to me they're just happily streaming audio and video over regular radio - but without the right key for a specialized receiver, not only you won't be able to listen in and transmit back, you won't even be able to prove there is a signal in the first place.

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#34

Post by 082349872349872 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #32
geoffeg wrote: post #6

I assume most numbers stations have disappeared in part due to the proliferation of global internet access. But I've kinda wondered, how does that work? One of the benefits of numbers stations is that it was nearly impossible to determine who was listening to a shortwave radio station. Any internet resource someone visits would be traceable by the government. Even with SSL nearly everywhere it's not nearly as anonymo…

I don't think they need the Internet. If you look at frequency hopping in military radios, and how GPS receivers pluck out the signal from below thermal noise floor, it seems entirely plausible to me they're just happily streaming audio and video over regular radio - but without the right key for a specialized receiver, not only you won't be able to listen in and transmit back, you won't even be able to prove there i…

Finding strong signal in another man's off-white noise: it's classy if you're a rich-country spy (or radioastronomer/voyager mission control?) chipping a pseudorandom sequence, but it's trashy if you're a paranoid suffering a psychotic break.

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#35

Post by krisoft »

wkat4242 wrote: post #25
anonymousiam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say about locating SW receivers may have been true in the era of superhetrodyne receivers, but today, in the era of direct digital sampling, it's no longer true. Old superhet receivers would leak the LO through the mixer out to the antenna so nearby detectors could deduce where the receiver was and what it was tuned to (assuming a standard IF, which is a fair assumption given the plethora of high-Q 455KHz an…

Well yes that's what I said - these days it's less true with the direct conversion (many superhet's around though still!) but SW numbers stations are not really a thing anymore anyway so the solution is a bit late :) And a direct conversion receiver and the computer attached to it can also leak RF. I'm pretty sure equipment these days leaks more RF than in the 80s. And not just RF. People have even been able to deter…

> standard holiday shortwave receiver

A what now? :) Are you sure that is a lot harder to explain away than literally any computer gizmo looking object? (Today, not in the 70ies)

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#36

Post by lormayna »

bayindirh wrote: post #30
geoffeg wrote: post #6

I assume most numbers stations have disappeared in part due to the proliferation of global internet access. But I've kinda wondered, how does that work? One of the benefits of numbers stations is that it was nearly impossible to determine who was listening to a shortwave radio station. Any internet resource someone visits would be traceable by the government. Even with SSL nearly everywhere it's not nearly as anonymo…

Number stations are far from being disappeared. The current schedule of tracked ones can be seen in [0]. I guess clandestine operations now use expiring dead drops in the form of IP addresses with some protections, but they may be using applications or other hide in plain sight methods like chats rooms in games, etc., which are not unheard of. Considering governments and intelligence services love to run Tor exit nod…

They are almost disappeared in Europe. The only one that you can easily listen are The Buzzer, The pip, The Squeaky Wheel and the letter beacons (not really number stations), all of them from Russia.

Maybe in Asia or America you can listen more number stations.

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#37

Post by implements »

bayindirh wrote: post #30
geoffeg wrote: post #6

I assume most numbers stations have disappeared in part due to the proliferation of global internet access. But I've kinda wondered, how does that work? One of the benefits of numbers stations is that it was nearly impossible to determine who was listening to a shortwave radio station. Any internet resource someone visits would be traceable by the government. Even with SSL nearly everywhere it's not nearly as anonymo…

Number stations are far from being disappeared. The current schedule of tracked ones can be seen in [0]. I guess clandestine operations now use expiring dead drops in the form of IP addresses with some protections, but they may be using applications or other hide in plain sight methods like chats rooms in games, etc., which are not unheard of. Considering governments and intelligence services love to run Tor exit nod…

Back when https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Chapman was in the news, I think I remember talk of hollowed out rocks containing a battery powered WiFi hotspot. Person sits on a particular bench at a particular time and a data exchange with their phone / some other gadget is triggered automatically.

(Usual risks of the person setting the drop (and therefore the drop itself) being under surveillance apply, I guess)

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#38

Post by TeMPOraL »

082349872349872 wrote: post #34
TeMPOraL wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they need the Internet. If you look at frequency hopping in military radios, and how GPS receivers pluck out the signal from below thermal noise floor, it seems entirely plausible to me they're just happily streaming audio and video over regular radio - but without the right key for a specialized receiver, not only you won't be able to listen in and transmit back, you won't even be able to prove there i…

Finding strong signal in another man's off-white noise: it's classy if you're a rich-country spy (or radioastronomer/voyager mission control?) chipping a pseudorandom sequence, but it's trashy if you're a paranoid suffering a psychotic break.

Well, if you find a signal in the noise, there are three possibilities:

1. You knew what to look for, though you shouldn't have. They'll either disappear you, or call you paranoid and forcefully commit to a mental institution (where the treatment regiment will surely make you suffer all kinds of mental ailments).

2. You didn't know what to look for, but you found a legit signal anyway. This means they've fucked up - but once they realize that you know, you'll get the same treatment as in point 1. There is no "responsible disclosure" when it comes to spycraft, and the only bounty will be on your head.

3. You're just paranoid and imagining things.

By the time the wider public learns about you, the three possibilities here are indistinguishable.

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#39

Post by Arrath »

mike_d wrote: post #23
geoffeg wrote: post #6

I assume most numbers stations have disappeared in part due to the proliferation of global internet access. But I've kinda wondered, how does that work? One of the benefits of numbers stations is that it was nearly impossible to determine who was listening to a shortwave radio station. Any internet resource someone visits would be traceable by the government. Even with SSL nearly everywhere it's not nearly as anonymo…

You can blame satellite TV for the demise of numbers stations. Shortwave radios became less common with the uptake in broadcast television, so it in turn became more suspicious to be in possession of one. I won't speak to the methods the US uses now, but Russians are fond of ad-hoc wireless networks in public places.

> Russians are fond of ad-hoc wireless networks in public places.

I always appreciated that in the lore of the STALKER games the PDA network that allows modern communication within the Zone is a cooperative mesh network between every STALKER's gear.

Re: Number Stations and Enigma Stations

#40

Post by next_xibalba »

082349872349872 wrote: post #34
TeMPOraL wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they need the Internet. If you look at frequency hopping in military radios, and how GPS receivers pluck out the signal from below thermal noise floor, it seems entirely plausible to me they're just happily streaming audio and video over regular radio - but without the right key for a specialized receiver, not only you won't be able to listen in and transmit back, you won't even be able to prove there i…

Finding strong signal in another man's off-white noise: it's classy if you're a rich-country spy (or radioastronomer/voyager mission control?) chipping a pseudorandom sequence, but it's trashy if you're a paranoid suffering a psychotic break.

This is an all time great HN comment. I LOL’ed. Bravo!
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