Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Dead people have no use for money, doing this kind of research is not a waste, in my opinion, even if it is very unlikely to work at this stage. Umm, people still alive have use for money. The money could go towards helping the lives of the living, so it absolutely is a waste.
Yeah, we should expropriate the assets of [Nonprofit that does thing I don’t like] to spend it on [thing I like]. Almost everything people in rich countries do is a ridiculous luxury compared to the fact that it costs about $1,000 to save someone from dying of malaria. Most of everything humans do is clearly a waste. We can’t even get it together to prepare for the next pandemic, never mind existential risk. This is…
What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
511–520 of 599 posts
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#512Never understood the quest for immortality. We are the children of our time. When our time passes, we will live as strangers in a strange land, drowning in the sea of nostalgia. Death will simply takes us back to where we came from before our birth. Don’t fear the reaper.
Classic Terror Management Theory: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory IMHO this is a generally benefitial viewpoint in life, except when specifically discussing mortality.
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#513Earlier quoted context omitted.
In case it's insightful, I've correspondingly never understood the common contentment with death. The world is an incredible place, and there's so much to experience and do. If I had the time there's hundreds of careers I could spend a lifetime in each trying to develop mastery. I think I could live a thousand lives with the people I care about and not be done. I've had to choose one life, and it's a nice one, but if…
I've lived a modern day life of comfort, opportunities and experiences unimaginable compared to even my grandparents (all deceased now). I've been to places and had opportunities to try things which they never did. Compared to my grandma who cooked during food rationing and had to save sugar rations to make a cake, who lived a frugal life of 'make do and mend', I have the spare money and first world surroundings to i…
Personally, I've always had the itch to recreate as much of the computing stack I rely on as possible. I love the idea of running my own text editor in my own shell, written in my own programming language, compiled with my own compiler, running on my own operating system. Not because I think I would be pushing the state of the art forward or that it would be commercially viable, but just for kicks. The joy of truly understanding.
I think this is not a completely uncommon feeling, which is why a lot of programmers could look at Terry Davis and say "okay, aside from the obvious mental illness, the racism and the antisemitism, there is something there." He spent years building something with little value to anybody beyond himself. Zach and Tarn Adams spending twenty years on Dwarf Fortress also comes to mind, to the extent they are doing it for themselves. These projects require huge sacrifices on the part of their creators. The opportunity costs incurred shape their lives (e.g. the Dwarf Fortress decisions currently being made based on health insurance coverage). I can't imagine inflicting the programmer monk lifestyle that would come along with such long term non-commercial work on my young kids when the end state is just "Yeah, it's useless but I got a kick out of doing it."
Being honest, it's also hard to imagine that once my kids move out and I can pick a more austere lifestyle just for myself, I'll look at the remaining ~20 years of my life and say, "I think I will devote the rest of my life to this one single 'that would be kinda neat' drive."
If I had, say, 100, 200, 500 more good years where I could just subsist and pursue passion projects? I'd love to spend 10-20 years going down the "recreate all your software from scratch" rabbit hole.
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A thought on the "society needs death" idea: if my continued existence pursuing obscure hobbies without economic value is a drain on society, maybe the fix isn't that I must die at some arbitrary age fixed by evolution, maybe the fix is just a better way to account for the costs and benefits of our actions. Don't say nobody can spend 10,000 years jetsetting from tourist spot to tourist spot, just require them to offset it through their other actions so that on balance they've made a positive contribution.
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm absolutely shocked that more money and time is not spent researching how to cure death by aging. Faced with their own mortality, a bunch of aging billionaires and multimillionaires tend to pour money into longevity research. I'd be very upset if governments increased spending on fighting senescence today, instead of lower-hanging fruit .
When Elon was asked why longetivity research didn't pick his interest as worthy of an investment, he said: >It is important for us to die because most of the time people don't change their mind, they just die. If you live forever, we might become a very ossified society where new ideas cannot succeed.
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm all for longetivity, but I admit what he said has substance. It's not (only) about old people having short term vision/not enough time for reeducation. 25 or 30 year old people are already very often set in stone and unable to change their views and they have most of their life ahead of them.
Why not die at 30 then in the spirit of societal progress? This argument is philosophical i.e. worthless. We will actually have to win with death to answer the question if it's good or not. It's not something you can figure out without doing it.
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too upon hearing of a lunatic beating a frozen disembodied head to gallagheresque pulp with a blunt instrument can't help but smile sardonically if the resulting goop was formerly wealthier than me. Cool and normal. Power to the people bro. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Either democracy fixes the wealth gap, or violence does. And democracy ain't lookin' too hot over the past ten years.
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a (common) fallacy that could be applied to any funding or focus decision. It reduces to "Why focus on X when Y is more important?". You could use your same examples here as an argument for why not to support space exploration, or environmental conservation, for example.
Government budgets are finite: prioritization is not a fallacy but comes built-in, as anyone who has written a grant application knows. We have a whole host of societal functions that are not geared to cope with longevity: including social security plus the associated tax-rates
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are definitely reasons to fear the reaper. When we go return to where we came from before our birth it simply means the absence of consciousness. In this universe, you can either be conscious or not. There is something mysterious and magical about this phenomenon that seemingly differentiates our lives from simpler or even single celled organisms which seem more like biological robots. It may very well be that…
I think you use the word "consciousness" as a thought stopper. A though experiment: Imagine I have no consciousness, but I can run circles around you, outperform you, outpredict you, game you, have a better intuition (gasp), or be more creative (gasp squared). What's left of the magic now?
When we strip away all of these aspects from 'the magic' it gets really interesting to think about what's left. And this is always where it becomes hard to articulate for me. Would you describe yourself as a robot performing a set of finite predetermined tasks? A system merely responding to pattern recognition? Are we just a more complex version of ants following some chemical impulses?
I cannot shake the feeling that it's more of a 1+1=3 kind of thing, where the sum is more than the addition of parts. In Complex Systems Theory it would be emergent behavior, I suppose.
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
To my understanding, not a single pharaoh was found in a pyramid. Most were found in the Valley of the Kings. It's also worth noting that there are no hieroglyphs inside the Great Pyramids (which are supposedly said to be tombs), when the Valley of the Kings (an actual tomb) was caked in them. Also, the only written text depicting the construction of the Great Pyramids, that I could find, is (again, supposedly) the F…
Over 1000 years passed between the construction of the Great Pyramids and the time when the Valley of the Kings started to be in use. Of course decorative styles would be different! It's not very surprising that we don't have a lot of texts about the construction of buildings that are 4,500 years old. The pyramids are incredibly ancient, and were ancient when later pharaohs tried to understand who built them. For com…
Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
I too upon hearing of a lunatic beating a frozen disembodied head to gallagheresque pulp with a blunt instrument can't help but smile sardonically if the resulting goop was formerly wealthier than me. Cool and normal. Power to the people bro. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Either democracy fixes the wealth gap, or violence does. And democracy ain't lookin' too hot over the past ten years.