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The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

arxiv.org

21–30 of 353 posts

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#21

If we assume alien life in the universe is predatory and seeks to consume other life forms, and since the universe allows detection from other species over infinite distances and time scales, we would expect life in the universe to either be totally undetectable or else be consumed by life that is totally undetectable.

That could very well be true but it's a bold assumption indeed.

Bold and odd. I read Under the Skin. Excellent and innovative sci fi, but nobody goes that far and spends that much even for a Kobe beef burger. Even here on bloody barbaric Earth, weapons exist mainly to keep trade from being disrupted and the largest military has an environmental compliance department.

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#22
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way. How do the SETI people explain this away and justify their search? One light year is tiny, I think it would take an incredibly generous Drake equation estimate to make that contain intelligent life. Same for 100 light years too. But I lean towards pessimistic Drake equation values. Life is even more rare and precious the more I dig into the equation. > The true stellar density near the Sun is est…

I would have to assume that they know this and are in fact only looking for messages that are purposefully sent at very high power. It's also why they favor listening at the hydrogen line since transmissions at that frequency stand the best chance of penetrating through cosmic dust, i.e. you would only use that frequency if you were intentionally trying to transmit across interstellar distances. I think they don't po…

For me it boils down to- would an advanced civilization beam out a very strong locating signal on purpose? They would have to be very certain they were the baddest strongest civilization in the galaxy. I can’t think of a way intelligence and that idea go together.

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#23
Before we worry about communicating with civilization far away in space but coexisting with us in time, we should work at communicating with civilizations coexisting with us in space but far away in time.

One of my favorite "out there" theories is that it's possible (and I mean conspiracy theory possible) that the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum[0] was caused by an industrial civilization facing the same global warming problem we are today right here on Earth, wiping itself and several other species at the time out, but otherwise leaving the planet fine and recovering in short geological time.

The interesting part of this "theory" is that because PETM happened 50 million years ago, even if there was a civilization as complex and large as ours today, very little (essential none) evidence of it would survive.

My last bit of techno optimism is that if we do find ourselves unquestionably headed towards climate catastrophe, we should start investing research into figuring out how we might send some kind of message to a future civilization that emerges 50-100 million years after us. Something along the lines of "human were here! watch out for those hydro carbons!"

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Therm...

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#26
post #19

There's no paradox. Technological civilizations destroy themselves relatively quickly. That's becoming painfully obvious.

Not every intelligent life form out there will have the same homicidal baggage in their genes as the homo sapiens

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#27
post #12
post #5

The first alien we will ever encounter is likely a neural network we built with our hands.

If something visits us from another star system it's also likely to be an AI. Hibernation for thousands of years to travel between stars would be almost trivial for machine intelligence. Just turn yourself off. It'd be easy to tie this directly to solar power. Have an array of solar panels that powers you near a star and in interstellar space you just naturally go to sleep. When you approach the next star system the…

What's hard to comprehend is how there could be a possible way to preserve our consciousness through a hibernation state. Like, our cells might not die, and we might be technically revived, but we'd still be brain-dead.

And if we figure it out, does the original "experiencer of consciousness" in that body return to life? Or is it a new consciousness, with the same memories, but the original person who went to sleep would never experience waking up again? And how would we be able to test that?

If we asked the "new experiencer of consciousness" if they are the original, they would say yes, as they'd have all the same memories as the experiencer who initially went under. Kind of like the color blind problem, but much harder to objectively test, if not impossible.

Consciousness, behind a unified theory of everything, is one thing I hope is answered in my life time. Probably won't be. But it's such a mystery.

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Non-directional radio transmissions (e.g. TV, radio) would not be distinguishable from cosmic background radiation at more than a light year or two away this is going to come across as sarcastic in text, I genuinely mean this. Why don't the authors know this? Why doesn't someone tell them?

Because I suspect that under focused analysis the signal won’t quite look like cosmic radiation background. Now I also haven’t done the analysis, but information, and entropy are funny things. Will they get to watch a human TV show ? Hell no. Would it look “random” versus showing that it once contained some structured information ? I think that’s a very open question. There are probably more serious papers that deal…

An old NTSC video signal has a clear periodic structure. Simply counting lines is going to reveal a lot about the structure and if anyone gets the idea of plotting lines they will figure out how to decode it.

An efficient digital signal is going to maximize the use of bandwidth if it looks like white noise. That said, a signal like that needs a carefully calibrated receiver, so part of the signal in time-frequency space is going to be allocated for something that is easy to acquire and will tell to how to decode the main signal. You might see a periodic structure: if you want to run a "signal frequency network" with multiple transmitters with the same signal, have to deal with a lot of reflected signals, or listen from a mobile terminal that suffers from the Doppler Effect you will probably turn off the signal for part of the cycle so that reflections can die down and you can reset your echo cancellation algorithms.

Thus digital signals aren't going to be invisible but they are going to spend maybe 5% of the energy in a way that is easy to interpret as opposed to all of it.

Re: The Fermi paradox revisited: Technosignatures and the contact era

#30

Before we worry about communicating with civilization far away in space but coexisting with us in time, we should work at communicating with civilizations coexisting with us in space but far away in time. One of my favorite "out there" theories is that it's possible (and I mean conspiracy theory possible) that the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum[0] was caused by an industrial civilization facing the same global warm…

If they'd sent us the same message we wouldn't have listened.
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