Live data from Hacker News

What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

bigthink.com

461–470 of 599 posts

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#461
My somewhat eccentric friend Keith Henson once performed the grisly task of "converting whole body to neuro", which the article mentions: downgrading some of Alcor's full-body customers to head-only by removing their heads from their bodies with a chainsaw, or as Alcore's illustrated report delicately explained, "a rapid conversion to neuropreservation was done using a high-speed electric chain saw."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Henson

Keith is quite a character, who also successfully performed one of the most hilarious trolls ever against Scientology lawyers:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20791891

>Just be glad you didn't have to explain an in joke about ftp sites, the local loopback address, and a troll, in a deposition, under oath, to Scientology lawyers, like Keith Henson did.

The Great Mambo Chicken and the Transhuman Condition, page 93-94:

https://www.gwern.net/docs/transhumanism/1990-regis-greatmam...

>Finally some evidence about the success of cryonics emerged from among the ranks of the frozen themselves. Not that they were revived, they were only defrosted. Or at least parts of them were.

>In November of 1983, for the first time ever, a cryonics firm conducted autopsies on the defrosted mortal remains of two Trans Time patients who had been converted to neuro. The parties in question were a married couple who had wanted to be frozen after death. They hadn’t had the required lump sum in advance, but Trans Time didn’t want to turn them away, so it accepted them on a contingency, pay-as-you-go basis. Monthly maintenance costs would be covered by their loving son.

>When the son’s parents died, Trans Time suspended them as whole-body patients, which was their desire, and for a number of years everything went along exactly as planned. But then the son himself died, in an automobile accident, after which the monthly payments ceased. Trans Time kept the parents frozen for a while, but it was clear that sooner or later something had to be done. It was a private company, operating without government support — indeed, often in the teeth of government opposition — and could not afford an extended period of unpaid maintenance, especially when for fifteen out of its sixteen years of existence the company had run at loss.

>But then the Alcor Life Extension Foundation came to the rescue. It would take care of the frozen parents, essentially on a charity basis, but only on the condition that they could be “converted” first, which is to say, converted from whole-body to neuro, the latter being far less expensive than the former. “The same capsule that you put a whole body in,” Saul Kent once explained, “you can probably put twenty heads in.”

>This, of course, meant that the heads had to come off while the patients were still frozen. Not that this was much of a problem. As Alcor’s illustrated report on the case explains, “a rapid conversion to neuropreservation was done using a high-speed electric chain saw.”

>This was now a golden opportunity to see how frozen bodies actually fared over their years in storage—nine years for the husband, five for the wife. So the Alcor men thawed out and autopsied the newly decapitated bodies.

>There was both bad and good news. “The most unexpected finding as a result of these autopsies,” says the report, “is the discovery of serious fracturing in all of the suspension patients.” There were fractures in the outer skin, in the subcutaneous fat, in the blood vessels next to the heart, in the arteries and veins. The right lung of one patient was cracked almost in half, as was the liver, and there were open wounds on the hands and right wrist.

>This was not encouraging, but it was all too easy to lose one’s perspective. The fact of the matter was that the injuries suffered by these frozen corpses were no worse than what’s seen in hospital shock-trauma units every day of the week—broken (if not absent) arms and legs, and so on—but many of these people end up recovering. The fact that the frozen corpses were not in pristine shape was not by itself any cause for alarm.

>The good news was that much of the bodies survived perfectly intact. The palms of the hands, the soles of the feet, and other structures were all in fine shape. As for the brains, they remained in suspension and were not examined.

>To Alcor, the whole thing was a learning experience. The initial suspensions had not been perfect, but all things considered, the patients came through the whole process about as well as anyone could expect.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 100 is quite enough -- life is meant to be lived with people one knows.

Not a fan of lone immigrants then?

I don't think lone immigrants would immigrate if they had to cut contact with people they knew.

It's also a big difference in outlook -- people that would scoff at life extension would also be the people ready to "end" something in life, and not constantly be at the teat of something. For example, young soldiers in WW1. That sort of outlook is alien to most now, modernity's pit of comfort makes a fool of anyone who partakes.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#464

I wonder what leads people to believe that anyone in the future will be interested in applying their staggering new re-animation technologies to centuries-old frozen corpses? There's a comment somewhere in this thread about perpetual motion. This tech seems to be its mirror-image, equal in impossibility, but opposite in aim. To stop all motion and decay, forever. Sometimes, it's wise to be circumspect, and to admit t…

If we found a caveman now we would definetely thaw it out to try to ask it some questions and study it. Why anyone Would actually want to be put in such a position in the future, I'm honestly not sure. You would be more akin to a zoo animal than a person allowed to walk around in a certainly completely alien society, I'd imagine.

I watched a pretty horrifying scifi recently (I think it was on netflix) about a guy who chose to be frozen and was thawed in the early experimental stages of the reviving process and ends up as a lab rat basically.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm absolutely shocked that more money and time is not spent researching how to cure death by aging. (Note that for those who discuss this semi-regularly, that's understood to be very different than seeking a cure for any particular age related disease, which usually we attempt to address when it's too late.). There are groups like https://www.levf.org/ doing some early work like Robust Mouse Rejuvenation (in mid-lif…

> I'm absolutely shocked that more money and time is not spent researching how to cure death by aging. Faced with their own mortality, a bunch of aging billionaires and multimillionaires tend to pour money into longevity research. I'd be very upset if governments increased spending on fighting senescence today, instead of lower-hanging fruit .

Not sure about anyone else but if I was a billionaire researching it I certainly wouldn’t tell anyone if possible.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#466
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If aging is cured then the elderly could be fully productive.

At the cost of less elderly who'll miss out on being reproductive die to all the spots already being taken. Achieving immortality would be robbing from your descendants what your ancestors bestowed.

Here's a little thought experiment: when a company has layoffs, do more young people or more old people get the axe?

If we get to a place where people can live healthy lives until they are 300 years old, why do you think someone who finished college 40 years ago will be more valuable for a company than a fresh graduate? Because nowadays we have exactly this setup minus the 300 year lifespan, and often times the company is happy to let go of the senior guy.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#467
post #432
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the pharaohs already discovered, an immortality plan that depends on generations of low-paid underlings to maintain the dead elite's physical bodies is fundamentally flawed.

Uh? They already knew that which is why they tried to hide their tombs..

The builders of the pyramids tried to hide their tombs?

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One shouldn't put money into "curing death by aging" without fixing society first; while birth rates exceed death rates, the world fills up and drains natural resources etc etc. There's a ton of problems that need resolving if living longer is to be a thing.

So the solution is to have the equivalent of a mass genocide in old people? I would much, much, much rather be alive in a fucked up world than dead in a nice world.

> I would much, much, much rather be alive in a fucked up world than dead in a nice world.

You don't know that. You think that is the case, but (I) you don't know what death is like, so you cannot realistically claim it is worse than anything (II) until you qualify 'fucked up' then this is a pointless claim, since your version of 'fucked up' may not be that bad compared to what is in the realm of possibility.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#469

Never understood the quest for immortality. We are the children of our time. When our time passes, we will live as strangers in a strange land, drowning in the sea of nostalgia. Death will simply takes us back to where we came from before our birth. Don’t fear the reaper.

That seems like a severe lack of imagination/empathy on your part. Others won't be "drowning in the sea of nostalgia" because they didn't find the past enjoyable.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#470
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, this statement is true for many plans of the elite :-)

I too upon hearing of a lunatic beating a frozen disembodied head to gallagheresque pulp with a blunt instrument can't help but smile sardonically if the resulting goop was formerly wealthier than me. Cool and normal. Power to the people bro. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Either democracy fixes the wealth gap, or violence does. And democracy ain't lookin' too hot over the past ten years.
Post reply on HN