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Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

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Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#621
post #555

I reject the notion that anyone hearing or reading a word from this list could possibly experience anything properly categorized as "harm". This is what's known in the sports world as "flopping" - feigning an injury to elicit a penalty on the other team. Except academia has taken it even further. You don't even need to pretend that you're the one injured. You can make up an imaginary person and pretend they are injur…

Although a lot of this list seems silly, it also has slurs like "retard" and "jewed" on it, which i think are very reasonably considered offensive. I think the tarball thing is rediculous, but the opposite extreme of no words can be hurtful is also rediculous.

This list was bound to mix reasonable proposals with wild ones. So that when you point out the wild ones, you can be told "hey, but what about this very reasonable thing?".

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#622
post #555

I reject the notion that anyone hearing or reading a word from this list could possibly experience anything properly categorized as "harm". This is what's known in the sports world as "flopping" - feigning an injury to elicit a penalty on the other team. Except academia has taken it even further. You don't even need to pretend that you're the one injured. You can make up an imaginary person and pretend they are injur…

> This is what's known in the sports world as "flopping" - feigning an injury to elicit a penalty on the other team.

Nitpick, there are two kinds of "flopping" in sports, which you can both observe e.g. in soccer.

One is to simulate a made-up foul as you say, basically trying to mislead the referee into giving an unjustified penalty. This is clearly illegal and constitutes a foul itself.

However, often players flop to highlight fouls that actually happened but were so subtle or hard to see that the referee missed them.

The results are still ridiculous - Ronaldo rolling in pain on the grass because the other player had briefly pulled his jersey - but the greater strategy here is valid: If small, subtle fouls went unpunished, they'd be an easy way to gain an unfair advantage for your team. So the game would very quickly turn into a contest of how to hide fouls best from the referee. By highlighting fouls to a ridiculous degree, players are counteracting this.

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#623
post #555

I reject the notion that anyone hearing or reading a word from this list could possibly experience anything properly categorized as "harm". This is what's known in the sports world as "flopping" - feigning an injury to elicit a penalty on the other team. Except academia has taken it even further. You don't even need to pretend that you're the one injured. You can make up an imaginary person and pretend they are injur…

Does this apply to those with abnormalities and defects like ADHD and autism? Are they just faking being crazy in order to get an advantage? Like in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? Or are they secretly trying to oppress us by forcing us normal people to live by their stupid, made up and malicious rules? Like in that Harrison Bergerson story. Why would they do something so evil, so corrupting to society? Is sociopath…

I imagine whoever came up with this list had no such issues as a child.

If they did, they would know the list is more harmful than good.

Evidence? The content I am replying to.

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#624
post #555

I reject the notion that anyone hearing or reading a word from this list could possibly experience anything properly categorized as "harm". This is what's known in the sports world as "flopping" - feigning an injury to elicit a penalty on the other team. Except academia has taken it even further. You don't even need to pretend that you're the one injured. You can make up an imaginary person and pretend they are injur…

Here's one of many such egregious examples:

> committed suicide > died by suicide > Ableist language that trivializes the experiences of people living with mental health conditions.

I had a friend commit suicide, and one of my mum's colleagues - also an acquiantance of mine, who I'd chat with in the pub semi-regularly - also committed suicide many years ago. I've suffered with depression for much of my life since my teenage years (undiagnosed until I was well into my twenties), and I have a close family member who's spent maybe a quarter of their life over the last 20 years institutionalised, with much of the rest of the time in close contact with mental health authorities. I've had many friends and colleagues over the years who've suffered with mental health issues.

But apparently "committed suicide" is "ableist language that trivializes the experiences of people living with mental health conditions."

No.

It isn't.

It is a brutal term that aptly captures the daily visceral struggle of both those with mental health issues who are battling suicidal thoughts, and those who are left behind after a friend or relative does commit suicide. It very well captures the trauma and impact of such an event. It also avoids the final indignity of stripping the unwell person of their agency, and therefore their humanity. It is 100% certified appropriate (were such a certification to exist).

The only thing harmful about this list is that it exists and that somebody, or some group, got paid actual money (presumably as part of their day job) to compile it. In 200 years time, if somebody authors a book called, "The hideous and shameful annals of bullshit jobs in the early 21st Century" I have no doubt at all that this will rank very highly.

Let's call this list what it is: thought policing. Whoever is behind it sits somewhere on the same spectrum as the real world Morality Police of Iran, or the fictional Thought Police (and the Ministry of Truth, who control language - and in particular are replacing it with Newspeak) in George Orwell's 1984.

The word toxic has become heavily overused, but this list is an absolute examplar of it: it is a product of deeply warped and corrupted thinking. Some terms on the list (which I don't think need repeating here - racial slurs, and the like) are considered pretty universally offensive but that does not justify the presence of the rest.

Overall what we have is a pretty transparent and unsophisticated attempt to control people by those too stupid to understand the negative impacts of their actions on wider society.

I would have hoped for a lot better from an institution such as Stanford with a rich history of valuable contributions (including to hacker culture).

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#625
post #371

Probably what you should take away from this is not “wokism gone crazy” (err, sorry “wild”). The more important lesson here is that the bloat in academic institutions has gotten so outrageous that people start bullshit time-consuming initiatives to justify their positions and the positions of their reports. Absolutely no one will take this seriously including the person who wrote it but they will be able to put it on…

Oh but they will. Words like whitelist and blacklist have been banned by woke theater fiat at the bigco I work at, although I have seen no evidence they actually have anything to do with racism. I suspect our banned words list has a lot of overlap with Stanford's. Rabblerousers like to rabblerouse, and nobody wants to be the voice of reason when the people who decide your paycheck make stupid political decisions.

do people understand that light / darkness is the most primitive dichotomy there might be. I guess all organisms are working in day / night cycle, most of religions have / had god of light. America (sic) please get your act together. You are the biggest exporter of wokeism in the world

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#626

"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thought-crime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it." —George Orwell, 1984 (1949)

Interestingly the theory of restricting language to control thought has been debunked. But personally, I do think that our range of acceptable speech can impact our thoughts in more subtle ways both positive and negative.

There has never been any proof for it, and the scraps of data that point in the direction of a weak version of Sapir-Whorff all suffer from the usual psychology research flaws (cf. replication crisis).

If there's any way in which word usage influences our thoughts, there's not much evidence of it. E.g., there are ungendered languages, but the societies that use them are absolutely not more feminist than those where a gendered language is spoken. And suppressing slurs usually leads to substitution by other words, showing that the thought very much stays alive, independent of the word.

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#627
It is overwhelming to see so many language guidelines in one place. But the point is to catalog a comprehensive set of best practices.

The vast majority of cases presented here are changes I've learned over the past 20+ years. When I was a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s,almost all of the negative cases on here were normal ways to talk. Some individual cases are debatable--and it would probably be better to refer to more nuance, since there is not unanimous agreement on all of them--but on the whole, I think it's a useful catalog, with mostly good rationale.

I think there are wrong ways to use such a catalog. Using it to be punitive or demanding 100% compliance would be counterproductive, I think. Nothing is absolute. However, using it as a guide for small, teachable moments is really useful.

Honestly, it's simply about being respectful and making an effort. Considering my language use is a small, but useful step to improving my practice of empathy, on the whole.

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#628
post #555

I reject the notion that anyone hearing or reading a word from this list could possibly experience anything properly categorized as "harm". This is what's known in the sports world as "flopping" - feigning an injury to elicit a penalty on the other team. Except academia has taken it even further. You don't even need to pretend that you're the one injured. You can make up an imaginary person and pretend they are injur…

Some of them are deliberate slurs but most of them are just colourful language.

This list is 95% absolutely ridiculous and I’m what you’d probably consider a proponent of social justice.

It’s deeply funny, but also tragic because while there should be an attempt to make language inclusive, lists like this make the movement look like a joke.

Re: Stanford's “Elimination of Harmful Language” Initiative

#630
post #532

Serious question, and maybe this is ignorant because I do not have an academic background but: Are these people not just a vocal minority? And if so, who cares? It seems like the internet is always up in arms about woke-ism but I honestly don't notice much of it in my daily life. At work, sure there are rules and regulations, but they make sense. Treat people with respect is always my default stance. If I make an ass…

It’s an absolute nothingburger, but lately tech seems to be outraged and obsessed over a “woke mind virus” that seems to be infecting the masses by the billions…

In their minds, because in real life this just doesn’t exist.

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