What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#291

Post by JaumeGreen » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #174

wintorez wrote: post #168

Never understood the quest for immortality. We are the children of our time. When our time passes, we will live as strangers in a strange land, drowning in the sea of nostalgia. Death will simply takes us back to where we came from before our birth. Don’t fear the reaper.

In case it's insightful, I've correspondingly never understood the common contentment with death. The world is an incredible place, and there's so much to experience and do. If I had the time there's hundreds of careers I could spend a lifetime in each trying to develop mastery. I think I could live a thousand lives with the people I care about and not be done. I've had to choose one life, and it's a nice one, but if…

When I was younger I wanted to live forever, nowadays I'm more at peace with the idea of death.

There are a couple of things that make death bearable. Any longevity treatment should placate the first and we should aim to compensate the second with plenty of change in our lives.

First is physical ailments. Even a healthy person will accumulate aches, and those will slowly erode they will to live. Several of my grandparents (and some that were not mine) have expressed that they were waiting to be taken, and I'd wager that would be a part.

Second is the mental fatigue. Not only your mental state is akin to your physical one, so you might be mentally exhausted, but also you begin to get bored with most media. It's hard to find a story that hasn't been told before, music that you find original and good, few dishes that you still dare to discover, ... .

Apart from the personal point of view there's also the general one. There two more problem arise.

Sustainability, as the planet can support what it can. The society and the way resources are managed will have to change a lot if people live longer. But don't worry because...

Power. You'd go from families holding power to individuals. No longer the young master will spend all the money and none will be left, because their parents will have control over that. Situation could become even more oppressive with them withholding the longevity treatments, giving some to their employees and none to the general public.

So while I agree with your sentiment, which is also beautifully expressed in HPNOR, I'd say that there's a lot of transformations to be made before it's good.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#292

Post by c1ccccc1 » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

beebeepka wrote: post #19

cultureulterior wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree, and you shouldn't force those of us who don't agree to die.

You'd have someone else wipe your ass rather than embrace death? How dignified.

I think the person you're replying to is referring to cryonics (the topic of the original article), which is still illegal in many jurisdictions.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#293

Post by yreg » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

harry8 wrote: post #67

So here is one of my current fav. conspiracy theories AND it involves Elon. Remember the first payload of his "Falcon Heavy" rocket - some tesla or other? Had a tailor's dummy in a space suit strapped in the front seat. That was a real person in the suit who had paid for the most effective, reliable and longest lasting cryogenic freeze available. No maintenance power required. Will continue to be frozen even if the e…

Science doesn't hold up, but immediate headcanon.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#294

Post by saiya-jin » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:51 AM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #195

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case it's insightful, I've correspondingly never understood the common contentment with death. The world is an incredible place, and there's so much to experience and do. If I had the time there's hundreds of careers I could spend a lifetime in each trying to develop mastery. I think I could live a thousand lives with the people I care about and not be done. I've had to choose one life, and it's a nice one, but if…

I'm absolutely shocked that more money and time is not spent researching how to cure death by aging. (Note that for those who discuss this semi-regularly, that's understood to be very different than seeking a cure for any particular age related disease, which usually we attempt to address when it's too late.). There are groups like https://www.levf.org/ doing some early work like Robust Mouse Rejuvenation (in mid-lif…

I would actively pay to fight such a movement. The world is full, yes it can be fuller but we are seriously cracking whole ecosystem and one of main reason is simply the amount of people living on this planet. If you prolong life say 2x it means Earth has 2x the population long term just due to this. Lets focus on serious issues hindering our growth as a race and not some vanity fears of few rich and powerful who think they are oh-so-special while they are not.

Death is good on so many levels - equalizer that removes most horrible tyrants like Stalin who would easily burn whole world just to be immortal and stay on top. If you are a normal decent person you can't even comprehend mindset of such sociopaths and their eternal greed. Don't think there are few people like that in a generation, rather few millions, just with fewer options.

Death also makes whole nations eventually forget wrongs on the past, otherwise we would still be hating mongols and huns and romans and swedes and british and slavers and germans as nazis etc. If for nothing else, just to remove threat of semi-eternal planetary dictator death is great.

My grandparents from my dads side both died few months ago aged 94 and 95. They saw all their friends, neighbors and colleagues die decades ago, and they were witnessing same starting to happen to kids of those close people. They were both depressed from this, gradual loss of everything that has any long term meaning plus decline of everything health-related. It sucks to be the last living guy from say group of friends, you think you would find tons of solace in the fact you are still alive but thats not how reality on the ground looks like. People just wait for death to come and many prefer it comes soon.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#295

Post by tetris11 » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:51 AM UTC

lynx23 wrote: post #290

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case it's insightful, I've correspondingly never understood the common contentment with death. The world is an incredible place, and there's so much to experience and do. If I had the time there's hundreds of careers I could spend a lifetime in each trying to develop mastery. I think I could live a thousand lives with the people I care about and not be done. I've had to choose one life, and it's a nice one, but if…

I sincerely hope you are wrong. Not being able to accept that things go, and new things come about, feels pathological to me.

As well as getting used to the idea of losing loved ones. Anyone who doesn't feel anything from the loss of close relationship, or conversely, does not seek out to make new ones, isn't likely going to be a well adjusted noble immortal with humanities best intententions at heart (see: Man From Earth), but an immoral perpetual leach that only serves themselves (see: various vampire films).

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#296

Post by spuz » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:51 AM UTC

lynx23 wrote: post #290

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case it's insightful, I've correspondingly never understood the common contentment with death. The world is an incredible place, and there's so much to experience and do. If I had the time there's hundreds of careers I could spend a lifetime in each trying to develop mastery. I think I could live a thousand lives with the people I care about and not be done. I've had to choose one life, and it's a nice one, but if…

I sincerely hope you are wrong. Not being able to accept that things go, and new things come about, feels pathological to me.

Living 1000 years wouldn't necessarily imply resistance to change. I'm not sure why you think that it would.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#297

Post by c1ccccc1 » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:52 AM UTC

eftychis wrote: post #170

fotrury wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to die eventually whether you like it or not. Better to get comfortable with this fact, rather than fight it.

Is there a proof that we have to die? Or that immortality for a human is impossible? Seems more like a lot in the medical field have experienced so much death that they simply have accepted it for a fact. If you asked someone centuries back if we would go to the moon, they will laugh you out of the room. Similarly, if you said that people will consistently live to their 90+ years of age.

It seem pretty likely that we have to die, based on the second law of thermodynamics. The whole universe has to end eventually, after many trillions of years. There's no physical law that would stop a person sticking around for those trillions of years, but it would be technologically very difficult.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#298

Post by sangnoir » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:52 AM UTC

Twisell wrote: post #267

concordDance wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What lower hanging fruit are governments currently spending on? Giant militaries? Healthcare for those last few months of life?

Comprehensive worldwide healthcare plan to successfully fight pandemic events comes to my mind. PS: Oh sorry I understood that as a question of what would be useful, not what is actually spent.

You were on the right track: I'm gp, and I meant there are other lower-hanging fruit that government ought to tackle ahead of senescence.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#299

Post by richardw » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:54 AM UTC

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #174

wintorez wrote: post #168

Never understood the quest for immortality. We are the children of our time. When our time passes, we will live as strangers in a strange land, drowning in the sea of nostalgia. Death will simply takes us back to where we came from before our birth. Don’t fear the reaper.

In case it's insightful, I've correspondingly never understood the common contentment with death. The world is an incredible place, and there's so much to experience and do. If I had the time there's hundreds of careers I could spend a lifetime in each trying to develop mastery. I think I could live a thousand lives with the people I care about and not be done. I've had to choose one life, and it's a nice one, but if…

I’ve found learning harder as I age. I can still do it, but I don’t think we’re as elastic as we are at 5, or 18. I’m guessing but I think it’s both internal changes and the sheer product of an expanded mental landscape. We have more to consider than a freshman. I think focusing really hard and making changes is easier when you have less on your plate. In a few years, an 18 year old can transform the trajectory of their life. It’s much harder when you’re 50.

This isn’t absolute. Of course with an infinite life some of these restrictions go away, but unless we get rid of the meat minds I think we’ll have some built-in limitations that are core to who we are as humans. I honestly think I learn more than most of my peers because I keep trying to, but I do find myself getting less interested in the latest fad. Some amazing people can learn entirely new life journeys, Carmack or SamA, say. But look at most people you know. Most are going to keep plugging away getting crankier and crankier. If those people hold power and grow their wealth indefinitely, I think that’s a net negative.

Max Plank said, paraphrased: Science progresses one funeral at a time.

We make way for the youth to have their go, with our influence reducing over time.

This all ends when AI arrives anyway. Change has to outpace us. Someone or something will get your wish of indefinite life, and we’ll find out how these patterns change.

Re: What happened to the first cryogenically frozen humans?

#300

Post by stareatgoats » Tue, Dec 20, 2022, 8:54 AM UTC

According to Wikipedia, more than 9 million people in the US have reported Near Death Experience (NDE) [0]. Some common traits that were reported:

- A sense/awareness of being dead.

- A sense of peace, well-being, and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.

- An out-of-body experience.

- A perception of one's body from an outside position, sometimes observing medical professionals performing resuscitation efforts.

- A "tunnel experience" or entering a darkness. A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.

- A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light (or "Being of Light") which communicates telepathically with the person.

- An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.

I'm not sure, but this feels relevant juxtaposed the prospect of returning to life in a body of unsure quality, with all my friends, relatives and acquaintances long gone, into a world that I can not expect to understand much of. Even if it ever became possible, which I sincerely doubt.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience