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How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

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Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#121

Post by irusensei »

anshumankmr wrote: post #90
adav wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a Roomba (or have used their app) but when something annoyingly insists on my location to setup/install, I just hit "Allow Once" with "Precise: Off" just to get past that screen. Then you can turn off the Location Services to "Never" for that app in Settings straight after. Not perfect but good enough?

This can be fixed by an app update as they may check each time you open the app whether they have the required permissions or not.

Pair the roomba with home assistant and you wont need the app at least for day to day activities. Home Assistant is more responsible because its talking direct to the device IP address instead of using cloud retrocombulators.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#122

Post by wafflemaker »

huhtenberg wrote: post #36
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #4

Key paragraph for our friends who don’t RTFA > iRobot … confirmed that these images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. All of them came from “special development robots with hardware and software modifications that are not and never were present on iRobot consumer products for purchase,” the company said in a statement. They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging…

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

Not sure about iPhone, but on Android, the permission to let apps pair things in surroundings using BT/WiFi is included in the location permission.

You can't pair anything with an app unless you turn the location on. Main feature of the Roomba app is to pair a vacuuming robot using phone's wifi and a special wifi network between phone and vacuum.

So while it's not a perfect solution to block you from going further, you can't really be that paranoid about them asking for that access. And ofc, I'm sure your location flew to the iRobot servers along with your other details that could've been scraped from starting the app on your phone.

edit: added paragraphs for readability.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#123

Post by aj0strow »

generativeai wrote: post #71

While Scale is very good at marketing, I wonder if companies using scale ai genuinely understand how their data is being labeled. They have been completely obfuscating that they primarily do crowdsourcing through https://remotasks.com/ . The brand of remotasks is entirely different than scale ai for apparent reasons. I don't think major companies would opt in for crowdsourcing if they knew it. There are plenty of man…

For what it's worth, the company offers pricing tiers for secure facility vs crowdsourcing and customers get to choose.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#124

Post by npteljes »

wafflemaker wrote: post #122
huhtenberg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

Not sure about iPhone, but on Android, the permission to let apps pair things in surroundings using BT/WiFi is included in the location permission. You can't pair anything with an app unless you turn the location on. Main feature of the Roomba app is to pair a vacuuming robot using phone's wifi and a special wifi network between phone and vacuum. So while it's not a perfect solution to block you from going further, y…

You can pair Bluetooth with location off, but not Bluetooth Low Energy devices. But it's even more complex in reality, depending on the Android version, see here:

https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/bluetooth/ble

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#125

Post by npteljes »

hobbitstan wrote: post #79
autoexec wrote: post #70

Roomba is the company that planned on using their vacuum cleaners to map people's houses so they could sell that data to third parties. https://nypost.com/2017/07/25/roomba-maker-wants-to-sell-you... Considering that this is how poorly they protect the sensitive data their devices collect (even those used for development purposes) I guess it's a good thing that public backlash over their spying plans forced them to r…

There was a huge backlash to this. There was the potential for thieves to find out the layout of someone’s home and when it was unoccupied. Add cameras to that and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

Like how Google Streetview became a disaster? I dislike mapping like this as the next privacy conscious guy, but the world hasn't really changed since then. But it was anticipated to.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#126

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #4

Key paragraph for our friends who don’t RTFA > iRobot … confirmed that these images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. All of them came from “special development robots with hardware and software modifications that are not and never were present on iRobot consumer products for purchase,” the company said in a statement. They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging…

"Seems like the real story is that training data was leaked, rather than the attention getting "they're watching you" narrative the title suggests"

Was the HN title changed. I am having trouble seeing how one who did not read the article would interpret the HN title to suggest a "they're watching you" narrative. For example, one could interpret it as posing a question about leaked photos, e.g., who leaked them and/or why.

The idea that a "they're watching you" narrative is "attention-getting" is interesting seeing that many HN commenters repeatedly tell us that people outside of HN do not care about privacy or surveillance. If that is true, then why would a journalist/publication seeking the largest possible audience try to advance such a narrative. No one cares. That's what they tell us, anyway.

NB. I am not suggesting that I believe the HN comments arguing that no one outside HN cares. They could be correct. However I believe the commenters making them could be biased if they are invested in the survival of the so-called "tech" industry, i.e., targeting internet users with data collection and surveillance and selling online advertising services as a "business model".

The actual title is: "A Roomba recorded a woman on the toilet. How did the photos end up on Facebook"

This website is a publication of MIT. A strange source for "they're watching you" narratives.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#127

Post by sofixa »

noduerme wrote: post #117
na4ma4 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dishwasher I got was the same, the app wanted access to location at all times (precise not approximate). If I disabled the permission it would stop working. So I switched to the home assistant integration for it and removed the app from my phone.

Why on earth would a dishwasher need an app? You have to load it before you start it... later, you walk by, it's done, you unload it.

The main use cases are around notifications - it's done, it needs X/Y consumable, A/B maintenance, etc.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#128

Post by sofixa »

twelve40 wrote: post #29
gretch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article and I don’t think your interpretation of the “suggested” narrative is there. The title is “ A Roomba recorded a woman on the toilet. How did screenshots end up on Facebook?”. That’s not really implying a “they’re watching you narrative” - who’s “they” and if it’s global syndicate why did they do something as innocuous as putting it on Facebook? But yes, the real story is that training data (and “re…

it's great that you personally are thorough enough to dig into the article and see for yourself - my favorite data set size of 1 and conclusions from that - but half the people even here, let alone outside of hn, will just grab the headline and run with it, saying "I heard roombas spy on people", and that's a problem. And the people who wrote this article know this full well.

> "I heard roombas spy on people"

Precisely how the "Zoom is Chinese spyware!" stuff spread around.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#129

Post by amelius »

huhtenberg wrote: post #36
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #4

Key paragraph for our friends who don’t RTFA > iRobot … confirmed that these images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. All of them came from “special development robots with hardware and software modifications that are not and never were present on iRobot consumer products for purchase,” the company said in a statement. They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging…

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

Meanwhile, privacy watchdogs are sleeping. They have responsibility too.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#130

Post by nonrandomstring »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #94
nonrandomstring wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A contractor posts some of these photos to a private Facebook group used by other contractors on the project. That's where it went wrong. Everything else seems reasonable for a visual AI training project, well signalled to the participating users and the data securely communicated. Thereafter, the data was mismanaged. There is clearly no such things as a "private" Facebook group. So called "contractors" [1] using a…

Private Facebook group, free tier Slack, a Zoom meeting, free Google Drive. I fail to see the difference. All of these are reputable, popular SaaS applications, widely used to collaborate at work. All of these are equally trustworthy (read: not that much), and give you the same privacy guarantees. Using either in a company setting without a contract in hand is unwise, IMO, but that ship has sailed long ago. GP is cor…

> Private Facebook group, free tier Slack, a Zoom meeting, free Google Drive. I fail to see the difference.

You didn't fail. Because there isn't one.

> All of these are reputable, popular SaaS applications, widely used to collaborate at work.

As you admit yourself;

  "these are equally trustworthy (read: not that much)"
If you fail, it is to believe that careful reputation management and widespread use of substandard tools makes them acceptable.
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