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How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

technologyreview.com

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Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#81

Post by cptskippy »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #4

Key paragraph for our friends who don’t RTFA > iRobot … confirmed that these images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. All of them came from “special development robots with hardware and software modifications that are not and never were present on iRobot consumer products for purchase,” the company said in a statement. They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging…

AND if you were doing testing for them through CenterCode/Betabound, they made it abundantly clear what you were being asked to test before you agreed to an NDA or completed the Study Application.

I participated in an iRobot Study in 2019, since then I have received multiple invitations that I have declined specifically because they mentioned streaming video or cameras.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#82

Post by fantod »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #63
operator-name wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article you'll also find the owners were specifically aware that these units are special in that they upload all data - commercial devices do not share any images or video without the users consent [0]. It's also absurd to think they didn't face safeguards. We can only speculate if the individual was fired, or if stronger policies were put in place since 2020, but it's naive to expect that whatever po…

> If you read the article you'll also find the owners were specifically aware that these units are special in that they upload all data Well, you'll find a Roomba spokesperson saying that, anyway. I don't mean to imply that the spokesperson was lying and these were plain old roomba's instead of special R&D Roomba's. I do mean to imply that I think a roomba spokesperson would describe "included in paragraph 12 of a 23…

Re-quoting the GP's quote,

> They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging that they were sending data streams, including video, back to the company for training purposes.

So it hardly seems likely that they would not be aware of this.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#83

Post by hobbitstan »

Karunamon wrote: post #38
hobbitstan wrote: post #7

Yeah, I’m not sure I buy their explanation about special development roombas since they offered zero proof. I have an ancient Roomba that’s still going and dread having to replace it one day.

You're operating in a framework where you already think they are lying. What proof would you even deem acceptable?

‘iRobot declined to let MIT Technology Review view the consent agreements and did not make any of its paid collectors or employees available to discuss their understanding of the terms.’

The reporters tried to validate and were blocked. That’s where my suspicion lies.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#84

Post by hobbitstan »

rocket_surgeron wrote: post #37
hobbitstan wrote: post #7

Yeah, I’m not sure I buy their explanation about special development roombas since they offered zero proof. I have an ancient Roomba that’s still going and dread having to replace it one day.

>Yeah, I’m not sure I buy their explanation about special development roombas since they offered zero proof. It is simple for any person with even basic knowledge of networking to independently come to the conclusion that Roombas are not uploading video streams (or photographs) to the internet. I know the IP (10.0.0.11) and MAC (50:14:79:1E:AB:6B) address of my Roomba and using the Insight Netflow Analyzer for OPNsen…

You really think Roomba owners know how to do any of that, or even would?

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#85

Post by EMIRELADERO »

gernb wrote: post #65
huhtenberg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

And, so, did you do the right thing and return it or did you just accept and therefore effectively indicate to Roomba by your actions that you're ok with it? I've returned several "smart" devices that required an app and an account. One example is GoVee smart blubs. As soon as they refused to work without an account I sent them back. Another is some Meross smart outlets. I retuned them for Eve Energy outlets.

> And, so, did you do the right thing and return it or did you just accept and therefore effectively indicate to Roomba by your actions that you're ok with it?

The burden is on them to not perform those actions, not on me.

I should be fully entitled to make use of the product without agreeing to any additional contracts or permissions.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#86

Post by mikem170 »

twelve40 wrote: post #29
gretch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article and I don’t think your interpretation of the “suggested” narrative is there. The title is “ A Roomba recorded a woman on the toilet. How did screenshots end up on Facebook?”. That’s not really implying a “they’re watching you narrative” - who’s “they” and if it’s global syndicate why did they do something as innocuous as putting it on Facebook? But yes, the real story is that training data (and “re…

it's great that you personally are thorough enough to dig into the article and see for yourself - my favorite data set size of 1 and conclusions from that - but half the people even here, let alone outside of hn, will just grab the headline and run with it, saying "I heard roombas spy on people", and that's a problem. And the people who wrote this article know this full well.

What's the worst that happens, someone buys an older roomba without a camera, or gets some exercise using a vacuum?

Is it a bad thing if people err on the side of being too private, for a change, instead of blindly trusting big tech tracking everything they do, or being completely uninformed about this sort of thing?

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#87

Post by hedora »

The roombas in the article were testing units, and people here seem to think this is just available for dev hardware. However it has been available as part of the iRobot beta program for a long time:

https://www.reddit.com/r/roomba/comments/qrs5e5/roomba_beta_...

and, of course, iRobot is in the middle of being acquired by Amazon, who have a long history of giving police, access to customers' camera feeds without proper opt-in processes.

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#88

Post by adav »

huhtenberg wrote: post #36
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #4

Key paragraph for our friends who don’t RTFA > iRobot … confirmed that these images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. All of them came from “special development robots with hardware and software modifications that are not and never were present on iRobot consumer products for purchase,” the company said in a statement. They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging…

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

I don't have a Roomba (or have used their app) but when something annoyingly insists on my location to setup/install, I just hit "Allow Once" with "Precise: Off" just to get past that screen. Then you can turn off the Location Services to "Never" for that app in Settings straight after. Not perfect but good enough?

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#89

Post by calvinmorrison »

huhtenberg wrote: post #36
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #4

Key paragraph for our friends who don’t RTFA > iRobot … confirmed that these images were captured by its Roombas in 2020. All of them came from “special development robots with hardware and software modifications that are not and never were present on iRobot consumer products for purchase,” the company said in a statement. They were given to “paid collectors and employees” who signed written agreements acknowledging…

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

Has that happen to me with a gifted watch. I returned it and got a basic casio

Re: How did Roomba-recorded photos end up on Facebook?

#90

Post by anshumankmr »

adav wrote: post #88
huhtenberg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a funny bit. Roomba iOS app refuses to go past its welcome screen unless its granted access to the location info. This is unreasonable, they don't need this info for their app to function. However their devices are all but unusable without an app, so they ultimately blackmail people into giving location data to them. Meaning they don't really give a sh#t about users' privacy, so it's not that "they are watchin…

I don't have a Roomba (or have used their app) but when something annoyingly insists on my location to setup/install, I just hit "Allow Once" with "Precise: Off" just to get past that screen. Then you can turn off the Location Services to "Never" for that app in Settings straight after. Not perfect but good enough?

This can be fixed by an app update as they may check each time you open the app whether they have the required permissions or not.
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