Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 160 posts

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#61

Post by PurpleRamen »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #16
jsnell wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask the users for their date of birth on signup, don't tell them that it will be used for age-gating features (to avoid incentivizing lying), and don't allow the date to be changed without some kind of age verification. Or you use the social graph to infer age: somebody who mainly plays with 10 year olds is probably also about 10. If they claim to be 20, require an id anyway. Non-gaming companies deal with this a…

10 year olds aren't as dumb as you're assuming here, they'd either make a new account, or have already been been putting an 18+ birth date for years. All anyone cares about is covering their own ass, so it'd solve that issue, but it would have neglibile effect on anything real. Source: Used the internet when I had to lie to every site about being over 13, so lied to every site about being over 13. Also vrchat require…

It doesn't matter whether some will circumvent the age-gate. The company made an attempt, and enough kids are blocked by it, this is a good enough for the law, at the moment. But Epic is not willing to even walk this short way...

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#62

Post by HDThoreaun »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #16
jsnell wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask the users for their date of birth on signup, don't tell them that it will be used for age-gating features (to avoid incentivizing lying), and don't allow the date to be changed without some kind of age verification. Or you use the social graph to infer age: somebody who mainly plays with 10 year olds is probably also about 10. If they claim to be 20, require an id anyway. Non-gaming companies deal with this a…

10 year olds aren't as dumb as you're assuming here, they'd either make a new account, or have already been been putting an 18+ birth date for years. All anyone cares about is covering their own ass, so it'd solve that issue, but it would have neglibile effect on anything real. Source: Used the internet when I had to lie to every site about being over 13, so lied to every site about being over 13. Also vrchat require…

You're saying this like it's bad but I'm not sure it is. If kids want to use voice chat they can, all they have to do is lie about their age. Default off for children is a good policy, and allowing them to get it around it with some effort probably is too. Seems like what's important here is that unsuspecting children aren't thrown into voice chat and immediately called the n word or something. If the kids are prepared to be bullied then they can go ahead with voice chat.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#63

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

zamadatix wrote: post #34
tyleo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a link to our support site which provides more information: https://recroom.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4426900227735-...

Love Rec Room :) But this is basically the button press the GP was talking about, during sign up (which can be separate from the main sign up on the same device) the kid just says they were born in 1912 and now the mic works. Yes it's compliant with the law but it's the same problem GP was actually talking about - there is no real verification. Having parental controlled accounts is a nice feature in general though,…

I think the idea is that parents are supposed to create accounts on Epic and Steam, not children. The parent selects the correct age during account creation.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#64

Post by HDThoreaun »

dbfx wrote: post #20
hourago wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So voice chat must now be turned off by default for all children across America? Should everyone playing a game be required to upload ID? And what is the gate between on and off by default? A single button press? When you go to the shop to buy alcohol you need to show an id. So, adults are free to buy alcohol but not children. Why is this any different? I understand that the problem comes from the amount of chat ab…

Somehow that wasn't an issue the last two decades, comparing it to alcohol is absurd, you dont go to the epic cornerstore and talk to the epic fortnite clerk to unlock voice chat. This war on "toxicity" at the expense of basic communication is insane, the match ends and it all supposed harassment ends.

Children in voice chat has been an issue for decades, maybe you just didn't notice?

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#66

Post by dagmx »

tyleo wrote: post #24
BryantD wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is a COPPA issue, you just have to ask for birth year and you’re allowed to trust the answer.

Yeah, I don’t know what the big deal is with people in this thread saying, “bah, this is impossible” but I work on a COPPA compliant game and “chat off for kids by default” is absolutely a must.

It’s because a lot of engineers get hung up in the “oh there’s so many ways to defeat this” mindset, and forget that perfect is the enemy of good.

Sensible defaults are a good enough start and many regulations like this are based around best efforts , not absolute perfection.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#67

Post by otachack »

72deluxe wrote: post #55
ThisNameNotUsed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

13 is nothing like 10, or 8. I have nephews playing on their own at 4.

I do not have children but I could not imagine my parents leaving me with unfettered access to a TV at age 4. If the Internet had been around, they certainly wouldn't have given me an internet-enabled device and left me by myself. How is playing games online where you can communicate with random people across the world without any sort of parental supervision possibly a good idea?? And why is it someone else's proble…

I'm also not a parent or a teacher. And I try my best to not give parenting advice to actual parents.

It helps to remember that life is complicated and there are limitless factors that can contribute to a family dynamic. Growing up my parents barely knew what the internet was and just associated it with "the computer". They attuned it as a "toy" and nothing serious. This allowed me unfiltered access to anything that was on the internet at the time.

You'd hope today's parents are more knowledgeable but I bet the majority of parents are just trying to get by and aren't ramped up as to how everything works today. They may be pressured to go with the technological flow head first due to society without fully knowing or controlling everything.

Anyways, back to my point, telling someone to "go parent right", especially as a non-parent, maybe you can approach it better.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#68

Post by temprose »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #63
zamadatix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love Rec Room :) But this is basically the button press the GP was talking about, during sign up (which can be separate from the main sign up on the same device) the kid just says they were born in 1912 and now the mic works. Yes it's compliant with the law but it's the same problem GP was actually talking about - there is no real verification. Having parental controlled accounts is a nice feature in general though,…

I think the idea is that parents are supposed to create accounts on Epic and Steam, not children. The parent selects the correct age during account creation.

What's stopping the kid from making a new account though? Knowing myself, I did similar things as a child especially since my parents were not very tech literate.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#69

Post by robertlagrant »

temprose wrote: post #68
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that parents are supposed to create accounts on Epic and Steam, not children. The parent selects the correct age during account creation.

What's stopping the kid from making a new account though? Knowing myself, I did similar things as a child especially since my parents were not very tech literate.

Exactly. It's a well-armoured safe door on a safe with no sides.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#70

Post by ethanbond »

devmor wrote: post #40
ethanbond wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just set it to off by default for everyone? That seems like a pretty pragmatic and very non-theatrical improvement. Of course it will have to contend with the theatrics of gamers whining about the immense hassle of a one-time settings change to enable voice chat.

"Off by default" is also a great way to make sure your feature is not used by the vast majority of people. It could easily lead to user attrition for new players looking for a social experience as well.

Ah yes, the ol' "lower user engagement versus non-stop racial slurs piped into the ears of the 13 year olds you just marketed your highly addictive game to" dilemma
Post reply on HN