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Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

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Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#31

Post by ethanbond »

zamadatix wrote: post #27
tyleo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what the big deal is with people in this thread saying, “bah, this is impossible” but I work on a COPPA compliant game and “chat off for kids by default” is a standard or https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/childrens-on...

How are you verifying age? The "this is impossible"s are about it being accurate on age not the disabling of chat once you have an accurate age. The point being the law is useless theatre that does nothing to prevent kids from using it but annoys everyone else anyways.

So just set it to off by default for everyone? That seems like a pretty pragmatic and very non-theatrical improvement. Of course it will have to contend with the theatrics of gamers whining about the immense hassle of a one-time settings change to enable voice chat.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#32

Post by Spivak »

mardifoufs wrote: post #25
Spivak wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that online gaming chat is really really toxic . It's one of those things where christian mothers were right about video games but wrong about why. It turns out that artificial violence and guns and sex aren't some big corrupting influence but hanging around assholes for the majority of your leisure time and social activity absolutely is. Online gaming where the only communication between players is jumping…

Or maybe this is exactly the same as those christian mothers, in the sense that it's "think of the children" hysteria from modern day puritans?

Oh no, it's "this shit is bad for absolutely everyone regardless of age and in some cases worse for adults, particularly young men, but it's politically infeasible to do anything to stop it once people turn 18."

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#33

Post by breezeitall »

BryantD wrote: post #9
Gareth321 wrote: post #4

I'm fine with Epic getting financially reprimanded for dark patterns and anti-consumer behaviour. I am not on board with this: > That lawsuit also accused the company of illegally enabling real-time voice and text chat communications for children and teens in the game by default. So voice chat must now be turned off by default for all children across America? How on earth is this supposed to be policed? Should everyo…

If this is a COPPA issue, you just have to ask for birth year and you’re allowed to trust the answer.

If I have a F2P game on mobile, do I then have to force ask the users age at the start to track things like DAU without getting potentially sued because I was unintentionally without knowing tracking < 13 years?

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#34

Post by zamadatix »

tyleo wrote: post #30
zamadatix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you verifying age? The "this is impossible"s are about it being accurate on age not the disabling of chat once you have an accurate age. The point being the law is useless theatre that does nothing to prevent kids from using it but annoys everyone else anyways.

Here is a link to our support site which provides more information: https://recroom.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4426900227735-...

Love Rec Room :)

But this is basically the button press the GP was talking about, during sign up (which can be separate from the main sign up on the same device) the kid just says they were born in 1912 and now the mic works. Yes it's compliant with the law but it's the same problem GP was actually talking about - there is no real verification.

Having parental controlled accounts is a nice feature in general though, regardless of the legal requirements. Ultimately things like this come down to making good parenting easier and that can help.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#35

Post by zamadatix »

ethanbond wrote: post #31
zamadatix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you verifying age? The "this is impossible"s are about it being accurate on age not the disabling of chat once you have an accurate age. The point being the law is useless theatre that does nothing to prevent kids from using it but annoys everyone else anyways.

So just set it to off by default for everyone? That seems like a pretty pragmatic and very non-theatrical improvement. Of course it will have to contend with the theatrics of gamers whining about the immense hassle of a one-time settings change to enable voice chat.

How does this prevent children from enabling voice chat?

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#36

Post by breezeitall »

jsnell wrote: post #11
Gareth321 wrote: post #4

I'm fine with Epic getting financially reprimanded for dark patterns and anti-consumer behaviour. I am not on board with this: > That lawsuit also accused the company of illegally enabling real-time voice and text chat communications for children and teens in the game by default. So voice chat must now be turned off by default for all children across America? How on earth is this supposed to be policed? Should everyo…

You ask the users for their date of birth on signup, don't tell them that it will be used for age-gating features (to avoid incentivizing lying), and don't allow the date to be changed without some kind of age verification. Or you use the social graph to infer age: somebody who mainly plays with 10 year olds is probably also about 10. If they claim to be 20, require an id anyway. Non-gaming companies deal with this a…

So are we all forced to have a signup at the start to not get sued? Can't just have a mobile/browser game that tracks basic data?

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#37

Post by ethanbond »

zamadatix wrote: post #35
ethanbond wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just set it to off by default for everyone? That seems like a pretty pragmatic and very non-theatrical improvement. Of course it will have to contend with the theatrics of gamers whining about the immense hassle of a one-time settings change to enable voice chat.

How does this prevent children from enabling voice chat?

The FTC's statement specifically says the issue is that it was on by default. Not that it could possibly be turned on by a child.

> The FTC’s $275 million proposed settlement with Epic Games, owner of Fortnite, alleges the company violated the law by collecting personal information from kids under 13 without parental consent and by enabling voice and text chat by default

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#38

Post by zamadatix »

ethanbond wrote: post #37
zamadatix wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this prevent children from enabling voice chat?

The FTC's statement specifically says the issue is that it was on by default. Not that it could possibly be turned on by a child. > The FTC’s $275 million proposed settlement with Epic Games, owner of Fortnite, alleges the company violated the law by collecting personal information from kids under 13 without parental consent and by enabling voice and text chat by default

The law is that https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2017/10/...

Even if "by default" was the law though that would seem to make things even more theatrical and less pragmatic anyways.

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#39

Post by [deleted] »

zamadatix wrote: post #35
ethanbond wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just set it to off by default for everyone? That seems like a pretty pragmatic and very non-theatrical improvement. Of course it will have to contend with the theatrics of gamers whining about the immense hassle of a one-time settings change to enable voice chat.

How does this prevent children from enabling voice chat?

[deleted]

Re: Epic Games to pay $520M to resolve FTC allegations

#40

Post by devmor »

ethanbond wrote: post #31
zamadatix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you verifying age? The "this is impossible"s are about it being accurate on age not the disabling of chat once you have an accurate age. The point being the law is useless theatre that does nothing to prevent kids from using it but annoys everyone else anyways.

So just set it to off by default for everyone? That seems like a pretty pragmatic and very non-theatrical improvement. Of course it will have to contend with the theatrics of gamers whining about the immense hassle of a one-time settings change to enable voice chat.

"Off by default" is also a great way to make sure your feature is not used by the vast majority of people. It could easily lead to user attrition for new players looking for a social experience as well.
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