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Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#571
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except as a user, the next version had to be better, or I wouldn't pay for it. Now they can just downgrade my product, and I have to continue paying for it.

And no non-subscription software company has ever gone out of business, and deleted all download links when it did so, preventing you (as soon as you lose the installer) from ever installing it again?

There are websites out there backing up every version of every software you can think of. In CD/DVD days, you'd obviously have your installation media, which the vendor couldn't retroactively take away from you. Or its backup. Later, I always kept the copy of the original installer .msi/.iso (mostly to save on download time - companies retiring products or going out of business so fast as SaaS ones do wasn't on my radar for a long time).

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#572
post #524

I don't mind newspapers being a subscription, because every day they have to do a lot of work to come up with a new version. However, I find subscriptions super annoying for things that already exist in its entirety and doesn't cost the service provider anything to give more of. Something I find unacceptable is the subscription situation coming up in the car industry: Some examples include: * BMW heated seat subscrip…

Re car manufacturers using remote "unlock" pricing, I will admit to being horrified when I first heard about it. Unfortunately for my emotions, there is a strong argument to support this new pricing approach-- which might be BS in specific cases but which, from a macro perspective, may nonetheless have merit-- in that fundamentally, all it is, is a mechanism for further granularity of the age-old thing called price d…

> generally viewed as good for both producers and consumers

How so? All examples of price discrimination I can think of are basically forms of rent seeking where money is extracted without providing anything in return.

Price discrimination is basically a tax levvied by the rich-powerful-and-better-informed entities of the world over the rich-but-powerless-and-poorly-informed.

For example, people who gladly pay premia for organic/green/ethical products while accepting any and all claims about the product actually being organic/green/ethical at face value are, to me, rich-but-poorly-informed.

Private health insurance in Germany is another good example: The cost of the service they're providing is mostly driven by insanely expensive therapies, like cancer treatment or dialysis, that you may or may not ever need. The catalogue of such services that insurance needs to cover is prescribed by law with only very minor deviations permissible, so you'd expect that premia for different insurance products are in a very narrow range. Not so. One such permissible small deviation is coverage of single-bed rooms during hospital stays versus five-bed rooms. That's financially just small change. But the premia for single-bed often cost as much as twice (or even more) as the entry-level premia. The folk who pay them, to me, are simply poorly informed. They don't work through the math of getting the low premium while paying for the single-bed room out of pocket.

A third example: This one is more about situational power than it is about smarts. If there are multiple different modes of transport and railway companies competing to provide transport in a given country, market forces will lead to an equilibrium price for rail transport. This is the price after deduction of the discount you get from the rail card. A tourist however, can't hand in an application for a rail card at the station and wait for 2 weeks for the card to arrive in the mail. So they have to pay full price, without the discount for the railway card. That premium is basically a form of rent seeking, where the rail company extracts a higher price from the tourist, merely because they have the power to do so, and without providing anything of value in return. A plain-and-simple form of rent-seeking. Economically as destructive as can be.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#573
post #451

> Want a password manager? It's a SaaS now. No, not all of them. Here is a password manager that runs locally, no SaaS: https://www.pwsafe.org/index.shtml -- plus here is a long list of compatible alternate versions that also are not Saas: https://www.pwsafe.org/relatedprojects.shtml > Note taking app? SaaS. Hmm, purists would say Emacs and Org-Mode here, but there's also a whole host of open source text editors that…

A lot of it is 'I don't like these payment terms or pricing' most do have alternatives that ticks the boxes, except Adobe/MS. For them its a matter of monopolies and price gouging, be it subscriptions/one-off payments/paying for upgrades.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I have to disagree too. Creative Cloud, IntelliJ, Figma, Google Workspace, Postman, Spotify, Vercel, Adguard, Google storage space, Alltrails, 1password.. They're all subscriptions and getting better all the time. Meanwhile it's the old purchased software like Windows and Office that get worse with every version.

You've mixed subscription based services (Google storage space) and content (Spotify) with subscription based software. For services, it might make sense. Even so, what exactly is "getting better all the time" about Spotify the software? It's been the same for like 5 years now. As for the rest: 1Password declined (turned to Electron shit), Creative Cloud keeps adding bloat while not adressing decades standing issues,…

Strongly disagree regarding 1Password, their client is continually improving and it is IMHO by far the best password managing service now, I have tried most of the other ones before it. Really have no issues with their Electron switch, I didn't even notice it, still fast!

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#575

Not really, because I saw too many software companies go out of business because not enough people wound up upgrading to the next major version -- the ownership model of software can be awfully feast-or-famine for developers' income, it's a very tough/risky business model. Generally speaking, I'm happy to pay a subscription because this way I get a steady stream of all the updates, and it's much more likely the compa…

I get what you're saying but I'd like to highlight an example of the opposite business model. For 25 years, Image Line have been shipping the FLStudio DAW as a one-off purchase with free lifetime updates, and since I've been receiving those updates for a significant chunk of those 25 years since I bought the Producer Edition, it seems pretty sustainable.

In their words "Why? Because we believe you should get the program you paid for, bug-fixed and updated for as long as we develop FL Studio." [1]

[1] https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio/lifetime-free-updates/

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also happens with my music player when playing my own library of music, it has actually gotten that bad that even random no longer works as it should. This is why I kept all of my old CDs, Mp3s, and DVDs... One day we're going to have to boycott everything and it will be painful for those who only had subscriptions on entertainment & productivity apps. I'll load up windows 98 if I have to! I'll do it again!

If, by painful, you mean “the need to plug in that old HDD with 100k MP3s”, keep up ratio on private trackers, and end up finding tons of amazing music again, all completely free to do anything I want with, then sure :) Squeezebox Server was awesome, and these days it’s way easier and more accessible to host a media server and playback in ways you want.

The pain, for me at least, was in organizing all that music. I ended up with a mess of files and folders, people didn't use ID3 tags consistently (if at all) and if you need to add them yourself manually then yeah, it's a pain...

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#577

One big negative aspect is that everything tends to cost around $10/month, from a verified Twitter account to an app to teach English to my children. Now, it may be small change for single people with Silicon Valley salaries, but I have a family to feed on my French experienced engineer salary, and I basically have around $150-$200/month left for entertainment for the whole family. I cannot buy 10 internet services,…

Maybe your employer is lowballing you. 200 disposable income as senior dev is too low.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that modern software is a living breathing thing, but it's absurd to compare that to music albums, which should not be constantly modified and reissued post-release.

...remasters? Conversion of tape to plastic to mp.... Newer, better(?), tech available for engineers. Zappa [iirc] made his plastic lp's 22 minutes a side as that gave the optimum wiggle room for needles, both at the presses and domestically. Led Zep (ahem) re-released an awful lot of original material.

That's not what I'd define as constantly. And I have no problem with an artist wanting to release their own music this way, but if it were the industry norm I imagine I'd find it insufferable.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm happy to pay a subscription because this way I get a steady stream of all the updates Who needs that? I use office 97 with Microsoft’s office converters package for modern formats. Super fast and does all I need I use photoshop cs2. Local. Fast. Offline Software can easily reach “good enough”. What is it with people today that makes them think that no updates or no recent changes is bad? I WANT my tools to be s…

Anxiety about security would be my guess.

Cynical worry/prediction: companies still selling software, or that have a backlog of previously sold old versions people still use, have an incentive to publish detailed descriptions into security vulnerabilities they've already patched in the newer/current versions, but which they won't patch in the older versions.
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