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Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#191

Post by zmmmmm »

I agree with your sentiment but something I can't get past is the need for security updates.

Perhaps it says something awful about the way software has become structured, but there are very few applications that are safe to keep using if they are never updated. As soon as you concede that the application has to continue being updated you also have to concede there has to be an ongoing cost model to support that. Not doing this has led us to routers that are the gateway to most people's homes running totally unpatched 8 year old versions of linux.

What I do wish is that the bare minimum viable updates were separated out from the major application feature updates. I would be happy to pay $5 a year for many of the applications I own and perhaps that would be enough to just ensure that security fixes are delivered. But instead I have to buy the major new version which not only costs 20x as much but also totally rearranges the application UI etc. and sometimes even loses features I care about.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#192

Post by acaloiar »

lamontcg wrote: post #174
crazygringo wrote: post #40

Not really, because I saw too many software companies go out of business because not enough people wound up upgrading to the next major version -- the ownership model of software can be awfully feast-or-famine for developers' income, it's a very tough/risky business model. Generally speaking, I'm happy to pay a subscription because this way I get a steady stream of all the updates, and it's much more likely the compa…

Yeah the problem with software these days is the constant upgrade cycle. Own-it-for-life means "I expect free updates for the next 20 years" which as we've seen with the mIRC author isn't the best business model. Turns the software developer into indentured servitude to all the people who bought it in the past. The JetBrains model where you own it up need to rent it to get upgrades seems to work reasonably well, but…

I'm curious what you know about the mIRC author's story. As a former mIRC user, I imagine it's interesting lore from the shareware era. Writing mIRC scripts was some of the first "programming" I ever did. Good times.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#193

Post by allarm »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

Not really, because I saw too many software companies go out of business because not enough people wound up upgrading to the next major version -- the ownership model of software can be awfully feast-or-famine for developers' income, it's a very tough/risky business model. Generally speaking, I'm happy to pay a subscription because this way I get a steady stream of all the updates, and it's much more likely the compa…

> And I don't have to agonize over whether paying for a major upgrade is worth it.

What’s so agonizing about it? You check the release notes to see what’s been added, what’s been removed. Then check the reviews and make a simple decision.

> as strange as "owning" a music album.

Physical copies of music albums exist. It’s much stranger to me to rely on the streaming provider to listen to my favorite albums when everything in the streaming world can be removed tomorrow over some copyright issues.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#194

Post by TingPing »

jonwest wrote: post #147
solardev wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but I have to disagree too. Creative Cloud, IntelliJ, Figma, Google Workspace, Postman, Spotify, Vercel, Adguard, Google storage space, Alltrails, 1password.. They're all subscriptions and getting better all the time. Meanwhile it's the old purchased software like Windows and Office that get worse with every version.

Do you feel as though Windows as a SaaS would be better? At least as a consumer I have a choice to say “I’d rather not upgrade to Windows 11 and get the worse experience” and not just login and see that those changes that I wouldn’t have upgraded for have just been pushed down as it happens with a SaaS. Windows, as an example, is an interesting one in that you’re paying once for a license and it’s good more or less i…

You don't have a choice not to upgrade Windows, not practically, it will go out of support and you can't do anything about it other than hope Windows Next will be more to your liking.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#196

Post by matwood »

imhoguy wrote: post #111
outcoldman wrote: post #88

I just wish subscription model would be more friendly for the individual entrepreneurs. Have an hourly/daily renting model. For example, I pay for IntelliJ, which is my primary tool, and I see the value of what I am paying for. Right now, the price is ~200/year, and will be ok actually paying 10x of that as well. On other hand, I also used to pay for Sketch, Adobe Suite, Parallels, which I used only 1-2 months a year…

It is still better than it was before, imagine you had to buy Adobe PS as a beginner, or you could just pir.... now you know why subscriptions.

Unfortunately for Adobe products the subscription is for a year, but your point stands. Office used to be hundreds of dollars, now you can start using it for $10/month and it includes cloud storage/syncing.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#197

Post by rincebrain »

37 wrote: post #59

>So yeah, why is that? And is anyone else tired of the constant barrage of subscriptions for things that should be one off purchases? It's extremely tiresome. And surely the only motives are profit and control. It's gotten so bad that now auto manufacturers are charging monthly subscriptions to use features that are built into the car that you have already purchased.[0] It's a disturbing trend that will eventually ha…

Charging a sub for things like heated seats is obviously broken, but I also don't know if people have an appetite for what the upfront costs would be for many pieces of software that are currently subscription based, in order to provide support for any length of time. Look at the pricing for IDA, which tries to balance having an astonishingly good product, but very limited market, for how this can end up distorted without being because the company is trying to make money hand over fist.

It seems similar, to my eye, to a problem with video game development - the total cost of development continues to grow as expectations for many games do, faster than we make production costs cheaper, but consumers are very sensitive to prices upfront, so we end up with many alternate revenue streams to try and make up the gap, to say nothing of the continuous revenue needs for anything ongoing.

And people lament companies being greedy, which is sometimes the case, but ultimately, if your game costs over 45 million euros to produce, retail price is $50, and you get perhaps 50% of that (to be generous), you need to sell 1.9 million copies to break even, let alone earn anything back. [1] But revenue streams like in-game cosmetic stores may get you a very different profit cut, even if they're only a few dollars each. [2]

The same logic holds for things like recurring subscriptions or ad-supported content - much smaller amounts, but many more sources, adding up to mitigate this problem.

I don't like it any more than anyone else does, but it's not just naked profit seeking, it's often that development and maintenance are expensive, and more people would pay $20/mo for Photoshop when they need it than would pay $500 or more upfront, and I don't see a good alternate model that works in the majority of cases.

[1] - yes I'm eliding the complications of other companies putting up the upfront costs in exchange for all the money until their costs plus are made back.

[2] - Also not touching the economics of gambling in-game and the long tail and whale economies.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#198

Post by solardev »

lapcat wrote: post #168
solardev wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Tech is moving so fast across multiple fronts that software obsolescence happens much quicker than before, not due to the developer themselves, but I mean things like Windows changing driver models, Apple changing silicon, Android APIs constantly evolving, web technologies mutating like a cancer... old versions quickly become useless without active maintenance. Meanwhile the subscription services largely keep…

> old versions quickly become useless without active maintenance. I think this is somewhat exaggerated. Not to mention that if you're using older versions of 3rd party software, you can use older versions of the OS too. In fact, many people don't like to update their OS version. If it ain't broke... > Meanwhile the subscription services largely keep pace with one another and stay compatible because most users are on…

Is it? A lot of my favorite games no longer work on the latest operating systems because they were on a buy once model. Others had their multiplayer shut down.

As for upfront paid software, sometimes it's also just not worth it to the developer to make a whole new version anymore or they shut down. The shareware industry is pretty much dead today, for example, although free trials for cloud subs are still very common. I think the sub model smooths out the feast and famine cycles, ultimately, and make for more intentional and less panicked releases.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone tired of everything being a subscription now?

#200

Post by layer8 »

The main problem is the SaaS model. Subscriptions for updates to local software are fine. At least (1) you can still continue to use the older version when paying the subscription isn’t worth it for you, and (2) you can control when to upgrade to a newer version, reducing the rate of churn and adapting to what fits your schedule, and also in the case where the new version is actually worse for how you’re using the software.
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