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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#221

Post by kube-system »

Hamuko wrote: post #217
kube-system wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting the vehicle idle in the driveway while the windshield defrosts will decrease fuel mileage, because the engine runs for longer.

It's not really the fault of "heating" that you're idling your car unnecessarily. I'm definitely not idling my car to defrost my windshield, as I'll most likely pre-heat my car, or if I don't, I'll scrape the frost off.

I feel like we’re losing context here. My comment wasn’t in reference to what I do, or what you do. It was in reference to what the root comment said they did.

The person in the root comment proposed that their practice of letting their ICE car warm up to defrost in the winter may lead to decreased gas mileage. This is correct; it will.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#222

Post by mcspiff »

jonux wrote: post #181
zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America". Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason. If it is around Celcius -40 then you would never turn off the vehicle. And a bit over that - there is always the Ru…

In Canada, electric block heaters for the engine are fairly common as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater . Similar concept to fire under the engine, but a bit more modern

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#223

Post by remarkEon »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #111
remarkEon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say that (am in Minnesota for Christmas holiday, where it’s currently 1°). It gets much colder than 20°F for extended periods in the Midwest. Is there just not a large enough sample of EV driving in those temperatures to extend the graph?

Exactly. They likely didn't have enough data, because a)it doesn't actually get that cold for very long, even in the coldest parts of the US and b)there aren't many people in those locations (North Dakota, grandparent comment's home state, has the same population as Boston, Massachusetts. Not the region - just the city itself) and c)there aren't many EVs, either - due to lack of infrastructure for them, lower income…

I guess I meant “extended periods” to mean “longer than two weeks”, which is about how often I’d fill up the gas tank when growing up there. Average temp in January through March is below 20°F per Wikipedia for most of the state.

Regardless, I agree there’s still good use cases for EVs in cold climates.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#224

Post by mellavora »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #153
zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

A big difference is that while an EV is sitting plugged in, it can heat itself from wall power, rather than burning gas to do it.

And the nice thing about wall power is that it generates itself thanks to the magic elves.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#225

Post by seanmcdirmid »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #161
dawnerd wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people own EVs in extreme cold and get by just fine. Look at Norway, EVs are incredibly common there and they’re regularly driven to the far north without much fanfare. https://www.youtube.com/@bjornnyland/videos

Populated Norway actually isn’t that cold. The average high/low for their coldest month is 0C/-5C. In contrast Seattle is 8C/2C. I’m curious how EVs are doing in a city like Harbin where it is -24C/-13C.

The city in the quote above is Oslo. Somehow I omitted that from my comment.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#226

Post by t-writescode »

mellavora wrote: post #224
LeoPanthera wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big difference is that while an EV is sitting plugged in, it can heat itself from wall power, rather than burning gas to do it.

And the nice thing about wall power is that it generates itself thanks to the magic elves.

Or water or nuclear or wind or solar.

Not everything is burning dinosaurs.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#227

Post by bbbbb5 »

jonux wrote: post #181
zackkitzmiller wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America". Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason. If it is around Celcius -40 then you would never turn off the vehicle. And a bit over that - there is always the Ru…

>Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America".

>Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason.

My German BMW 7 series definitely had remote start (and an auxiliary heater too). Maybach GLS has an auxiliary heater.

These are hardly uncommon features in vastly cheaper cars either. Various Webasto systems have been around for ages, often installed by OEMs.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#228

Post by darknavi »

rconti wrote: post #25
plebianRube wrote: post #9

I make sure the displayed range on the M3 is double for the distance I want to travel. Winter tires, snow and ice sticking to the car, and -15C are quite normal occurrences here, and range display is pretty consistently half of what to expect.

Does the nav system do a good job of compensating? The "normal" display on the 3 is based on the EPA rating and is always wrong, but when I navigate, I find the trip range thing to be quite accurate -- even factoring in upcoming hills and traffic.

Worth noting that the range estimates in the navigation has been updated in the last ~6 months to be much more accurate and shockingly close to ABRP[0]. Previously I'd use ABRP to estimate battery usage (and I still do for planning road trips) but I can now trust Tesla's estimates reasonably in the car.

0: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#229

Post by euroderf »

hunter2_ wrote: post #211
Epa095 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you only know the windchill temperature, how do you dress? If it is 10f with wind chill, do you prep for wind or not? I want to know temperature and windspeed, and then I know how many layers of wool I need (from the temperature) and how windproof I need to dress (from the windspeed).

Interesting point: if we need to know two things, one of them being air temperature and the other being [windspeed or windchill], the second thing ought to be whichever delivers more overall value. If you can figure out how to dress based on either one equally well, then it comes down to what else can be gleaned from windspeed vs from windchill. I would tend to agree that windspeed is more valuable, as it's better at…

Windchill addresses the user request "Don't make me think". Wind speed requires actual thought.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#230

Post by darknavi »

drewg123 wrote: post #176

My Tesla Model X 100D looses 25-40% of range in the winter (and by "winter, I mean 20-50F, as I live in Virginia). This is partially due to resistance heating, and the range is better if you're somehow able to live with keeping the heat off and using just the steering wheel and seat heaters. However, one thing I've never gotten used to is just how cold my feet get in the winter in this car. Even with the heat at full…

Very odd. I noticed my Model 3's floor gets quite warm in the winter on long road trips (like warm to the touch).
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