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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#121

Post by lazide »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #99
Reason077 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block…

I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?

EVs are mechanically far simpler. Mechanical parts always have issues dealing with large temp ranges (it becomes a very hard engineering problem), and the simpler the better. It’s not just oil (not needed to the extent it is in ICE cars), but everything.

For EV’s, the chemistry will have issues at low temps (fixed with battery warmers), and it has to use propulsion energy to heat the cabin, both of which will cause some loss of range.

As long as the battery doesn’t run down too low though, it’s a decent choice if other things are engineered correctly.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#122

Post by kube-system »

dkqmduems wrote: post #84
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your car doesn't feel wind chill. I drive an EV in Canadian winter all the time. Not at all an issue. Range loss is a thing but it's not like the car stops working. In fact it starts more reliably and heats up more quickly for me. And I start mine remotely while it's still plugged in, so the cabin is warm and ready to go without wasting battery energy. And can do this safely in the garage without concerns of carbon m…

Air velocity certainly impacts heat transfer.

The air velocity as measured relative to a parked car is not relevant to EV range. When the vehicle is moving the relative air velocity is far different than what it is when parked.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#123

Post by pifm_guy »

falcolas wrote: post #113
pifm_guy wrote: post #67

At some point, it will be worth fitting a car out with double glazed windows to reduce heat loss/gain through the windows. That should give reduce the energy used for cabin heating, reducing range loss, perhaps by half for longer journeys.

Any gains to winter range would likely be lost to the added weight year round.

True, although with double glazing you can probably make the HVAC unit smaller, saving weight there too.

And you might not need air vents to defog the screen either - a well insulated window won't get condensation on it to start with.

And double glazing typically needn't be much thicker than single glazing - as long as the air gap between the panels is sealed, then the air itself gives the whole window dynamic rigidity. That's why you sometimes see a thief throw a brick at a double glazed window and it doesn't break.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#124

Post by LinuxBender »

castratikron wrote: post #61
donatj wrote: post #42

As a Minnesotan with an unheated detached garage, I’d be very interested to know about -40°F performance. We get a couple of those days every year. I have been looking at my next car potentially being an EV and am really curious about the extremes.

A lot of ICE cars won't even start at 40 below. Those cases should count as zero mile range

My old vehicle gets really grumpy at -10F. I use an oil pan heater, a battery maintainer 1.5 amps, 2 heat-lamps above the engine and fuel additives heat, seafoam that keep it running. The only downside is that I feed all the local birds and they discovered my heat lamps.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#125

Post by mdorazio »

crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

The majority of Americans do not live in areas that get below 20F average for extended periods of time. Your particular use case is atypical, especially for EV buyers, so it isn't shown.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#126

Post by nkurz »

leereeves wrote: post #85
wolfram74 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be more accurate to describe it as cars generate more windchill from driving than the weather station is likely to experience from wind?

Doesn't the cold have the greatest impact when the car isn't moving, because the car warms itself while driving? And the reported wind chill matters when the car isn't moving.

> And the reported wind chill matters when the car isn't moving.

It matters in the sense that a parked car in the wind will cool to ambient temperature faster than it would when the air is still, but not in the sense that it will ever get colder than the actual still-air temperature. Wind chill affects rate of cooling, but (in the absence of evaporation) not the actual low temperature that is reached. Since the concern with loss of range or or starting capacity usually has to do with how the batteries perform at at extremely low temperatures, it's probably closer to true to say that "it does not matter".

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#127

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

I'm in Fargo and one of my coworkers recently got a Model 3. It's going to get much colder in the coming week and I'll be asking him about what kind of mileage he's getting.

Edit: Just looked through r/Fargo and found this thread on EVs here https://www.reddit.com/r/fargo/comments/wvdud0/evs_in_fargo/

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#128

Post by lazide »

nonethewiser wrote: post #97
boplicity wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It maybe worth calculating the cost of adding some insulation and very limited heating to your detached garage; this could be a factor, in terms of the overall cost of vehicle ownership.

I think that's excessive and even wasteful. He can use a heating block.

There is a lot of utility in a (moderately) heated garage. Nothing crazy, just up to a little above freezing.

For one, it really helps in breaking up packed in snow/ice in the wheel wells overnight, which used to be a big hassle for me.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#129

Post by wazoox »

api wrote: post #29

The Leaf has a bad reputation for this but this shows it’s toward the middle of the pack. I have one and this matches my experience. Of course I have a 2022 and this looks at later models. Maybe older models were a lot worse. They’ve changed up the battery chemistry to be more tolerant of a wider temperature range I think.

Yes old Leafs are notorious for terrible battery management. The battery overheated on long, rapid trips in summer and gave terrible charge times, too.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#130

Post by Teever »

mdorazio wrote: post #125
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

The majority of Americans do not live in areas that get below 20F average for extended periods of time. Your particular use case is atypical, especially for EV buyers, so it isn't shown.

As a Canadian I guess data from events that Americans rarely experience isn't really that useful or interesting.
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