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Bullshit

marco.org

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Re: Bullshit

#131

Post by drivebyacct2 »

makomk wrote: post #81
veidr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I'd love to have a few bottles of your fat-free water, it's a bogus analogy. It's more like claiming "100% trans fat free" on a package of cookies. That the vast majority of eaters don't care about or even know what trans fats are doesn't make the statement less true, or less relevant to those who do know and care. Android's openness is consequential to those who care about openness . And almost every Androi…

Not really. Android's "openness" doesn't include the ability to actually modify the software running on your device, which means that on its own it's useless to everyone except hardware manufacturers. It's only on the rare occasions when those manufacturers actually choose to do more than is required on them and open up their hardware to modifications that "openness" is of any value at all.

I don't really get what you're saying here. Some Android devices have locked bootloaders, but that doesn't affect the openness of AOSP. If anything, you're making an argument for GPLv3 which would require Android OEM's to allow for open bootloaders and (S-OFF (htc)).

But I can assure you, my Galaxy Nexus is running a CM9 alpha that I built from source last night.

Re: Bullshit

#132

Post by muyuu »

Joeri wrote: post #88
muyuu wrote: post #51

I disagree about the last line, not "everyone" has their bullshit. These 3 do have and spread massive amounts of bullshit, however.

I've never met a person that didn't have some level of bullshit going on. We all do it, so by extensions all our group efforts end up doing it. The book "why we make mistakes" has a good explanation based on how our mind works why it's part of the human experience to peddle a load of crock.

Yep, but I wouldn't equate slipping on occasion in some bullshit to have bullshit at the very core of your operation, as is the case with these three companies.

I know I do all I possibly can not to bullshit anyone. This may limit me in some respects but so do all principles.

Re: Bullshit

#133

Post by drivebyacct2 »

epo wrote: post #55
veidr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all bullshit except the 'Android is open' thing. That's just a plain fucking fact. Despite the incessant barrage of snarky 'open' jokes from professional Apple frother John Gruber (typically redeemed somewhat by being funny) and M.G. "Mini-Gruber" Siegler (not so much), you can go download the fucking source code : http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Sure, tons of manufacturers will sell you jun…

"Android is open" is BS for the plain and simple fact that (time delayed) source code availability is of no consequence to the vast majority of Android users. They say it as though it means something, it means nothing, rather like water vendors claiming "100% fat free" on a bottle of water. Marco didn't say the claim was factually incorrect, he said it was BS, it is.

Really? An operating system that is cheaper to OEM manufacturers (and thus cheaper per-device costs) as well as a vastly expanded variety of physical hardware isn't a benefit?

Re: Bullshit

#134

Post by KeithMajhor »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #120
KeithMajhor wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dangerous: "Able or likely to cause harm or injury" [1] Google is exactly that. I think you're reading too much into whats being said. Are you suggesting we shouldn't keep a watchful eye on Google? They have a tremendous amount of power. 1: http://www.google.com/search?q=define:%20dangerous

Their power is derived from your use of their services. You can quote the dictionary at me, but I simply don't understand this attitude. It's like handing over money to a drug dealer in the back alley and going "I just don't know about you, you seem dangerous" and then coming back week after week. Stop using Google and they lose all power over you and the "danger" evaporates.

I'm not trying to have an attitude. I said it once but I'll say it again: You're reading too much into whats being said.

I like your analogy. It perfectly exemplifies what I'm trying to say. Can I not use their services and be careful while doing it? Driving my car is dangerous but I do it every day. I'm not trying to say that they're bad. If you're distilling the word "dangerous" down to it's connotation then I can understand your disagreement. Please understand that I'm not doing that.

Re: Bullshit

#135

Post by Anechoic »

jrockway wrote: post #38
riffraff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. and personal email, and collaboration tools, and project mailing lists, and photo service, and maps service, and video hosting.. If you consider google as the search engine maybe not, but if you consider google the company the it's downright scary how hard it would be to get out of their grasp, IMO.

I don't think it would be that hard. You're one MX record change away from changing your mailhost without anyone ever knowing. You can continue using your gmail.com address without ever seeing ads by connecting with IMAP. You can get maps from anywhere, including Open Street Map. You can move your photos from Picassa to your own machine and to Flickr, if you desire. Google Chat is XMPP, so you can get a new "chat pro…

Google makes it very easy to leave and take your data with you. Google contributes as much of their internal software to the Free Software community as they can. They do need to make money, but they're trying to do it the old fashioned way: make products people they like.

Interesting, since I would say pretty much the same thing about Apple (certainly with the Mac platform).

Re: Bullshit

#136

Post by drivebyacct2 »

KeithMajhor wrote: post #134
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their power is derived from your use of their services. You can quote the dictionary at me, but I simply don't understand this attitude. It's like handing over money to a drug dealer in the back alley and going "I just don't know about you, you seem dangerous" and then coming back week after week. Stop using Google and they lose all power over you and the "danger" evaporates.

I'm not trying to have an attitude. I said it once but I'll say it again: You're reading too much into whats being said. I like your analogy. It perfectly exemplifies what I'm trying to say. Can I not use their services and be careful while doing it? Driving my car is dangerous but I do it every day. I'm not trying to say that they're bad . If you're distilling the word "dangerous" down to it's connotation then I can…

>You're reading too much into whats being said.

After reading this last reply, I think I am. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that everyone is thinking about it in the same way you and I are. There are a lot of people (often even on HN) that decry new Google products or features as some sort of "attack". Have no doubt, they want and live on data and ad-intel, but that's just part of the game, at least to me (an informed consumer).

Re: Bullshit

#137

Post by mechanical_fish »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #122
edw519 wrote: post #102

You forgot the biggest bullshit of all, Marco. Hacker News users: I'm so mad that the government is doing ! I'm so mad that big business is doing ! I'm so mad that venture capitalists are doing ! I'm so mad that angel investors are doing ! I'm so mad that got funding! I'm so mad that language doesn't do ! I'm so mad that I can't jailbreak ! I'm so mad that I'm actually expected to pay for ! I'm so mad that more peopl…

Isn't this comment just as cheap and reductionary? Many of the things you've listed their affect developers, startups and the system in which they are either able to succeed or fail. Even the characterization as nothing more than "I'm so mad" seems unfair.

Perhaps it's just an accident that edw519 has juxtaposed this comment against a post that's built out of pure tasty linkbait, an artfully constructed pop-music confection of a post that's predictably climbing the HN charts even though it's built out of truisms that old-school HN readers have read one million times each.

But I doubt it.

Yes, of course each one of edw519's bullet points refers to something important and true, just as each of Marco's bullet points refers to something important and true. They were true yesterday, and they'll be true tomorrow, and they'll be true the next hundred thousand times each one of them gets upvoted.

But the point is that the urge to spend time pressing the RIGHTEOUS TRUTH button over and over like a lab rat can become an addiction that ultimately does not serve you.

And with that I'm taking Ed's hint and trying to leave HN for the day. ;) Bugs must be fixed!

Re: Bullshit

#138

Post by gwern »

akent wrote: post #60
FooBarWidget wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mail host is the least I'd worry about. Migrating the mail archive is much more important. Furthermore Gmail's user interface beats anything else hands down, it's too hard to say goodbye to it.

Nothing very hard about migrating all your mail off Gmail via the IMAP interface if you really want to.

Or via POP (getmail4's `getmail_fetch` is easy to use). I did this recently, exporting basically every Google service I use: https://plus.google.com/103530621949492999968/posts/WrCjcBXc...

Re: Bullshit

#139

Post by eternalban »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #137
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this comment just as cheap and reductionary? Many of the things you've listed their affect developers, startups and the system in which they are either able to succeed or fail. Even the characterization as nothing more than "I'm so mad" seems unfair.

Perhaps it's just an accident that edw519 has juxtaposed this comment against a post that's built out of pure tasty linkbait, an artfully constructed pop-music confection of a post that's predictably climbing the HN charts even though it's built out of truisms that old-school HN readers have read one million times each. But I doubt it. Yes, of course each one of edw519's bullet points refers to something important an…

> Yes, of course each one of edw519's bullet points refers to something important and true

Isn't edw519 making an error in his implied equivalence of the power relationship between the B.S. and whining of the dependent ones?

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