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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#111

Post by KennyBlanken »

remarkEon wrote: post #41
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

Came here to say that (am in Minnesota for Christmas holiday, where it’s currently 1°). It gets much colder than 20°F for extended periods in the Midwest. Is there just not a large enough sample of EV driving in those temperatures to extend the graph?

Exactly. They likely didn't have enough data, because a)it doesn't actually get that cold for very long, even in the coldest parts of the US and b)there aren't many people in those locations (North Dakota, grandparent comment's home state, has the same population as Boston, Massachusetts. Not the region - just the city itself) and c)there aren't many EVs, either - due to lack of infrastructure for them, lower income levels, and (drumroll please) their lower ranges.

Contrary to the knee jerk reaction some people seem to be having, this isn't an conspiratorial attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of Real Americans(TM).

I don't understand the reaction, anyway - ICE vehicles plunge in range with cold temperatures too, and there are a bunch of reasons why EVs seem well-suited to rural life.

The range reduction doesn't mean squat when the longest average commute in the US - Maine - is 10 miles. Who cares if your 300-350 mile EV only gets 200 miles, when that's still 20 days of commuting, and every hour your car is in your garage, it's "gassing up" with no intervention on your part beyond a few seconds to plug in a cord when you get home?

FYI, looking at a smattering of temperature charts, "much colder than 20 degrees for extended periods" is a slight exaggeration for Minnesota.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#112

Post by Philip-J-Fry »

crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

I assume it's because temperatures like that during the day (when most car travel takes place) is less common than at night. It's more representative of the general use case.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#113

Post by falcolas »

pifm_guy wrote: post #67

At some point, it will be worth fitting a car out with double glazed windows to reduce heat loss/gain through the windows. That should give reduce the energy used for cabin heating, reducing range loss, perhaps by half for longer journeys.

Any gains to winter range would likely be lost to the added weight year round.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#114

Post by frosted-flakes »

twobitshifter wrote: post #88

I can’t decide on my next car - Live in cold village on US east coast - ICE might be going obsolete - BEVs are improving quickly so what I buy might be superseded soon - feels almost like the early days of smartphones. - Gas prices are very high - Used and new car prices are unreasonably high - There’s not enough chargers to support the number of EVs being driven in my area leading to long waits. - I could charge at…

Your current car is only a few years old and has relatively low mileage, so the best course of action is obviously to keep driving it. Unless there's something seriously wrong with it. Otherwise, buy a used car.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#115

Post by pornel »

twobitshifter wrote: post #88

I can’t decide on my next car - Live in cold village on US east coast - ICE might be going obsolete - BEVs are improving quickly so what I buy might be superseded soon - feels almost like the early days of smartphones. - Gas prices are very high - Used and new car prices are unreasonably high - There’s not enough chargers to support the number of EVs being driven in my area leading to long waits. - I could charge at…

You'll be fine if you're able to keep the car connected to a charger overnight. Many EVs have an option to pre-heat the battery while on the mains power, so you don't lose the range on heating the battery up.

Get a BEV with a heat pump. This improves winter efficiency.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#116

Post by [deleted] »

petee wrote: post #86
killjoywashere wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, you don't loose range to heating in an ICE engine. The heater is just a secondary radiator, so it actually improves engine efficiency. Old trick for driving an under-powered car over the Rockies in the summer: open the windows and turn the heater on.

Fun history, the '60s Corvair had an optional fuel-fired heater, which my dad swore by as a great holdover in the winter while waiting for the engine to warm up.

[deleted]

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#117

Post by wolfram74 »

leereeves wrote: post #85
wolfram74 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be more accurate to describe it as cars generate more windchill from driving than the weather station is likely to experience from wind?

Doesn't the cold have the greatest impact when the car isn't moving, because the car warms itself while driving? And the reported wind chill matters when the car isn't moving.

In the best case scenario where the car is in a garage, I've heard that you can pre-emptively bring it up to temperature on grid power and a great deal of the cold-induced range loss goes away. Might still work for outdoor parking, just a bit less shielded of an environment.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#118

Post by newZWhoDis »

rconti wrote: post #25
plebianRube wrote: post #9

I make sure the displayed range on the M3 is double for the distance I want to travel. Winter tires, snow and ice sticking to the car, and -15C are quite normal occurrences here, and range display is pretty consistently half of what to expect.

Does the nav system do a good job of compensating? The "normal" display on the 3 is based on the EPA rating and is always wrong, but when I navigate, I find the trip range thing to be quite accurate -- even factoring in upcoming hills and traffic.

Yes, but you need to use the “energy” app and have nav destination set. The little mi number next to the battery is “miles of ideal range”, so flat 65mph 70 degrees etc.

The energy app shows you live estimates based on distance, elevation, wind speed, temperature, humidity, tire pressure, cabin climate load, and even your phone charger.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#119

Post by LinuxBender »

dwighttk wrote: post #21
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

Maybe there aren’t many people driving EVs there

I'm in the Rockies, about 6300' elevation and the temp in the winter is often sub-zero with extremes being around -25F but only a few days usually. None of the locals have an EV but I have seen them on the highway going up to Yellowstone so I have not been able to ask them about range.

The UPS drivers here will soon have a couple EV delivery trucks. I talk to them all the time so perhaps that will be useful data I can relay. It won't be graphs, just happy or grumpy driver anecdotes. I hope they give the drivers good heaters.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#120

Post by thatfrenchguy »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #73
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

As I’m sitting here reading this, it is -35 C after windchill. The reason we didn’t get an ev is because we are getting the sense that the companies that make them do not take Canadaian weather into account It looks like some of those manufacturers only lose 3% of their range in weather like this, but that’s estimated. The verified numbers are far lower?

I don’t know, I’ve been to Quebec and there’s a ton of EVs there so I assume people manage?
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