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Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

recurrentauto.com

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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#31

Post by streblo »

totalview wrote: post #6

The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.

I've had the opposite experience. I live somewhere less cold than you and with my Model 3 I get -35% range when it's below 40 degrees F.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#32

Post by rconti »

totalview wrote: post #6

The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.

To clarify, yeah, the yellow "70f" bars are just completely wrong, at least from the Teslas I'm familiar with.

It claims a Long Range Model 3 like we have (310mi range) gets 215 miles, a 100kWh Model S about the same, and a 75kWh Model X barely over 150.

They don't list the methodology for the yellow bar, but since it's not experimental (they're comparing estimated and actual winter range with the dotted blue vs solid blue bars), presumably the yellow should be rated range, not tested range.

EDIT: Oh, now I see. If you scroll down to the car, they are, in fact, testing real world range at all temps. Claiming a long range model 3 gets 60% of its rated range at 70f is a bit mind-boggling, though. Ours has over 70,000 miles on it and while a full charge is now rated at more like 290mi, you'll certainly get over 200, even at 80mph.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#33

Post by St-Clock »

cameronh90 wrote: post #30

My fuel economy drops about 20% on my petrol car in cold weather city driving. I don't know what causes the difference, perhaps waiting for the car to warm up and windows to defrost.

Winter tire (if you have them) and heating are the likely culprits!

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#34

Post by j33zusjuice »

crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

I don’t understand it either. Lows well under 20°F are fairly common in the US. The _average_ temperature in the winter is in the mid-20s where I currently live.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#35

Post by FartyMcFarter »

dwighttk wrote: post #21
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

Maybe there aren’t many people driving EVs there

If that's the case, it might be even more important to show this data so that people there can decide whether to start getting EVs.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#36

Post by dwighttk »

whoisthemachine wrote: post #28
dwighttk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there aren’t many people driving EVs there

While they aren't as popular in the Dakota's, there's quite a few EV's in Minnesota, where the temperature ranges are similar (1 degree Fahrenheit at the moment).

> It includes aggregated and anonymized data from 7,000 vehicles in the Recurrent community from across the United States as well as tens of thousands of data points from on-board devices that provide data on energy usage.

Maybe some more Northerners should join Recurrent?

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#37

Post by duxup »

rconti wrote: post #23
dwighttk wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there aren’t many people driving EVs there

Well they're quite common in nordic countries; of course, the population of nordic countries tends to be in the southern latitudes.

Also I think being near the ocean helps with temperature.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#38

Post by Sakos »

crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

I figure 20F is just sufficient to prove their thesis (effects of cold on EV cars). I don't think it purports to be an all-encompassing study, especially since there are variables like cabin heating which can have significant effects on range in lower temperatures.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#39

Post by xyzzyz »

anamexis wrote: post #15
totalview wrote: post #6

The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.

Are you suggesting there is nearly zero difference in battery range in cold weather? Because that seems like something you can trivially look up as well. Heaters use power. Plenty of other articles seem to back up the ~20% loss for Teslas, such as: https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/how-much-worse-is-a-tesla-... One interesting thing that points out is that internal combustion engines are also about 15% less efficient…

> One interesting thing that points out is that internal combustion engines are also about 15% less efficient at cold temperatures.

They are less efficient at cold engine temperatures, but more efficient at cold air temperatures. This means that in cold winter, once the engine warms up (which might not take place on short routes), internal combustion engines are more efficient than in summer.

Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars

#40

Post by [deleted] »

j33zusjuice wrote: post #34
crazygringo wrote: post #16

I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota. And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.

I don’t understand it either. Lows well under 20°F are fairly common in the US. The _average_ temperature in the winter is in the mid-20s where I currently live.

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