Interesting data, but for the Model 3, I think an important piece is missing: model year. Around 2021 they switched out the resistive cabin heating for heat pump heating, which had a positive impact on cold weather range. Anecdotally speaking, my 2020 Model 3 gets between a 30-40% range hit in the winter.
Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#12Do EV's keep their batteries warm electrically? I know some RV LiPo batteries have integrated heaters to keep the batteries from going below freezing. I suspect that's an acceptable tradeoff in cold climates. Ideally you would keep the battery warm while charging since it's more or less free power when tethered, and thermally insulate the battery enclosure to try to retain that heat as long as possible.
The common RV battery for cold weather is a LiFePO4 battery. These can be used down to -20°C (-4°F), but you must not charge them below freezing, it will destroy the electrodes. The batteries integrate a heater which absorbs charging energy until the battery is safely warm enough to accept the charge, then charges normally.
In an EV this would be handled when charging by running a heater until it is a safe to accept charge. When driving, any time the battery becomes too cold you would divert regenerative braking energy into heating the batteries instead.
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#13The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.
Sounds like a lot of variance in experience, even in this thread. But if your car isn't breaking down, sounds like you should keep using it! But also be aware of inherent differences in battery performance in cold weather when recommending EVs to other Alaskans
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#14The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.
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Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#15The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.
Are you suggesting there is nearly zero difference in battery range in cold weather? Because that seems like something you can trivially look up as well. Heaters use power.
Plenty of other articles seem to back up the ~20% loss for Teslas, such as: https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/how-much-worse-is-a-tesla-...
One interesting thing that points out is that internal combustion engines are also about 15% less efficient at cold temperatures.
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#16I find it strange that the charts only go down to 20°F, when for example at the moment I write this comment, it's -5°F (-21°C) in Bismarck, North Dakota.
And sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures are pretty common in the winter across the Northeast, especially at night. "Normal" driving conditions extend way below just 20°F.
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder though if there would have to be a balance, as you wouldn't want it to over-heat when charging during an Arizona summer.
Insulation also works to keep heat out.
Or in – a battery while charging tends to emit quite a lot of heat on its own, doesn't it?
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder though if there would have to be a balance, as you wouldn't want it to over-heat when charging during an Arizona summer.
Insulation also works to keep heat out.
Not if the battery itself is generating heat. Then the insulation keeps the heat in.
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#19The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.
Sounds like a lot of variance in experience, even in this thread. But if your car isn't breaking down, sounds like you should keep using it! But also be aware of inherent differences in battery performance in cold weather when recommending EVs to other Alaskans
We have a tiny electric fiat 500 for small distance trips. 21 kWh battery. My wife routinely gets 7 km/kWh out of it, I struggle to reach above 5.5 km/kWh.
Driving style really matters. Especially with such a small battery ;)
Re: Winter & Cold Weather EV Range Loss in 7,000 Cars
#20The data in their nicely colored graph is wildly inaccurate. I have a long range Tesla model 3 (in Alaska) and the range is over 290 miles (it says 310 miles when full, but doesn’t quite get that, even in the summer). This is information you can trivially look up… I know Tesla gets a lot of flak, but it’s batteries outperform most of the other cars that are listed.
I've never seen that happen. I have seen it give optimistic numbers, which are dozens of miles short of GPS trip logs, and worse in moderate cold.
When you say "this is information you can trivially look up", not only does this article reference their own testing, but others, and a quick google shows these results aren't abnormal. This article is on the extreme end of test results, but it is not unreasonably so.
Tesla does get a lot of flak, and unsubstantiated fanboyism like this does not help.
https://www.naf.no/elbil/aktuelt/elbiltest/ev-winter-range-t...
https://insideevs.com/news/498554/tesla-model-3-range-extrem...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-mo...
https://www.whatcar.com/news/range-test-how-far-can-electric...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Long-term-Model-3-testing-reve...
https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/testing-teslas-range-anxiet...
Notably: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/disappointing-range-...
etc...