Don't Use Stripe • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#101

Post by rich_sasha » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 9:41 AM UTC

notimetorelax wrote: post #94

mndgs wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. It is an electronic money institution, which is far from a bank, it can only keep customer funds and process payments.

I don’t know the difference, but it does say that on the tin: https://www.paypal.com/lu/webapps/mpp/about > PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, S.C.A. is a credit institution (or bank) authorised and supervised by Luxembourg’s financial regulator, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (or CSSF). CSSF’s registered office: 283, route d’Arlon, L-1150 Luxembourg.

A bank can lend out deposits, ie. client money, ie. someone else's money. A normal regulated entity, like say an exchange, cannot.

Can't comment re PayPal specifically.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#102

Post by nnurmanov » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 9:52 AM UTC

boopboopbadoop wrote: post #63

nnurmanov wrote: post #56

The best option for you is to open case with EU competition commissionaire.

OP is in the UK, would they still be able to do this?

They are pretty responsive and I believe these things are happening in EU as well.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#103

Post by jakzurr » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

quelltext wrote: post #93

jmillikin wrote: post #87

mainly talking about coding in PERL. It's a little sus. This line stood out to me because I've seen it before. There's someone (or a group of someones) who repeatedly posts this same rant about Stripe on both Reddit and HN, slightly modifying the claimed business. For example, one iteration was a cell phone store in Denver that had their funds held after using their Stripe account to sell a used vehicle: Four months…

That is indeed weird. Maybe someone asked ChatGPT to write a Stripe rant here to troll HN.

I'm not going to say the writing here is bad, but in most examples I've seen, ChatGPT is quite a bit more polished.

That said, the rant seems pretty clear. But I have no clue as to how truthful.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#104

Post by herbst » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:24 AM UTC

quelltext wrote: post #95

It's a bit weird how OP talks about owning a UK business but uses US-centric terminology like EIN and talks about USD. The weird "PERL" rant sounds fishy. And Stripe does offer phone support, you just have to request it and they'll call back soon after.

About the talking about USD that's not so weird. USD has been pretty unstable compared to some currencies but is still the currency many of us do business in. For me it's easier to calculate in USD even thought I exchange them ASAP. Also UK businesses are very common too.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#105

Post by herbst » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:30 AM UTC

docflabby wrote: post #65

Most small business I've found don't accept credit/debit cards for large transactions and instead want direct (cash) bank transfers because they fear the money going missing or getting a chargeback. This has its only issues as its slow and not very customer friendly. If only there was some kind of virtual cash that could be sent from one party to another almost instantly without an intermediary

I am working with people from eastern Europe and west Asia. If they pay me in PayPal it's like 50:50 that the money is frozen for a month or two as fraud protection. Always resolving. 'Normal banking' often is no option at all.

I really wish there was a near instant payment method without heavy overregulation so I could do normal business with people from not so fortunate countries.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#106

Post by herbst » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:32 AM UTC

bagels wrote: post #86

docflabby wrote: post #65

Most small business I've found don't accept credit/debit cards for large transactions and instead want direct (cash) bank transfers because they fear the money going missing or getting a chargeback. This has its only issues as its slow and not very customer friendly. If only there was some kind of virtual cash that could be sent from one party to another almost instantly without an intermediary

My customers are not going to pay in Bitcoin.

Did you ask them?

My customers usually even ask to pay in crypto. It's surprisingly complicated for people in less fortunate countries to move higher amounts of money without an endless cycle of hoops, fees and waiting.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#107

Post by herbst » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:35 AM UTC

elliotec wrote: post #11

Obviously not easy - but how quickly do you think you can get on another payment processing platform? If you're desperate, is it possible to jump to Braintree or Square or Shopify or something in the immediate future?

Several banks here in Switzerland offers an alternative. Some with a third party, some even using their own gateways.

Not sure about other countries, the only downside is they have setup fees and don't usually accept low volume.

Low volume is really what make PayPal and later Stripe so approachable.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#108

Post by noduerme » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:36 AM UTC

quelltext wrote: post #98

noduerme wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. I've never been foolish enough to use them or direct a small business client towards using them. If I had been, based on this and a vast array of other similar complaints on this board and based on their business model that bundles transactions and balances merchant risk for gateways, I suppose that would be my own fault. But I do find them to be scummy as fuck, so I'm fine with them being taken down among t…

I was curious to learn how you came to your stance and it seems to be entirely fueled by these fake reports and complaints. I mean, I'm pretty sure they are giving some people unintentionally a bad time once in a while but I don't have evidence that they are "scummy". And really we shouldn't just swallow whatever people write here. Like the current submission seems to be turning out to be fake (see other comments).

This submission does strike me as highly questionable (especially with the reddit references and the "challenge" to HN, as I pointed out). Which is exactly why HN shouldn't be the everyman's savior in resolving contractual issues with tech firms.

But my bias against Stripe is not based on internet gripes. I've guided clients through and written custom APIs to connect with at least half a dozen payment processors since early days (when it was direct to gateway). As such I've heard horror stories about many of them, and have a relatively good grasp of their respective business models as pertain to KYC, banking relationships, reserve holdings and how they deal with chargebacks. Many of the new wave engage in what I'd call shady practices or dark patterns geared toward screwing small business, but Stripe has the worst model and the worst reputation of anything I've seen since the dude who ran Liberty Reserve went into hiding. I don't think it's a stretch to call them scummy. Hell, my own barber and my massage therapist both got screwed by them.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#109

Post by matiasfernandez » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:42 AM UTC

smca wrote: post #96

(I work at Stripe) As jmillikin points out below, this particular complaint has been repeatedly posted about Stripe on both Reddit and HN, with slight modifications to the claimed business. Publicly represented facts are not always reliable. As a rule, we won’t comment on specific user cases for privacy reasons. However, as a trend, we’ve seen an uptick in HN posts requesting we release funds held. We review every ca…

> We do not hold any user funds for any reason other than fraud prevention.

Ah yes, the things we do for "fraud prevention". I get that regulations might have Stripe's hands tied, but to say that the users posting their frustrations with frozen payouts are almost always fraudulent is a straight up lie. They might have triggered "fraud prevention" flags imposed by regulations on your system, but the majority are not fraudulent themselves (including me, who's had payouts frozen multiple times by both Stripe and Shopify, which I assume uses Stripe as a backend). We keep getting flagged and then "ok'd" by you guys almost twice each year. It's incredibly frustrating.

Re: Don't Use Stripe

#110

Post by noduerme » Sun, Dec 18, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

smca wrote: post #96

(I work at Stripe) As jmillikin points out below, this particular complaint has been repeatedly posted about Stripe on both Reddit and HN, with slight modifications to the claimed business. Publicly represented facts are not always reliable. As a rule, we won’t comment on specific user cases for privacy reasons. However, as a trend, we’ve seen an uptick in HN posts requesting we release funds held. We review every ca…

It's not just this complaint or similar ones, though. What recourse does a merchant have if you freeze funds and don't provide a reason or don't immediately put them in touch with a human? Stripe generally appears to misrepresent itself as a payment gateway when in fact it takes on merchants and bundles their payments as its own. Then you apparently sever connection with any merchant that might raise a flag with the bank, without giving a clear reason. This isn't "unfortunate" other than in the sense that it's unfortunate someone would be stupid enough to hinge their business on the mistaken belief that your company actually processed credit card payments.