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Bullshit

marco.org

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Re: Bullshit

#81

Post by makomk »

veidr wrote: post #63
epo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Android is open" is BS for the plain and simple fact that (time delayed) source code availability is of no consequence to the vast majority of Android users. They say it as though it means something, it means nothing, rather like water vendors claiming "100% fat free" on a bottle of water. Marco didn't say the claim was factually incorrect, he said it was BS, it is.

Although I'd love to have a few bottles of your fat-free water, it's a bogus analogy. It's more like claiming "100% trans fat free" on a package of cookies. That the vast majority of eaters don't care about or even know what trans fats are doesn't make the statement less true, or less relevant to those who do know and care. Android's openness is consequential to those who care about openness . And almost every Androi…

Not really. Android's "openness" doesn't include the ability to actually modify the software running on your device, which means that on its own it's useless to everyone except hardware manufacturers. It's only on the rare occasions when those manufacturers actually choose to do more than is required on them and open up their hardware to modifications that "openness" is of any value at all.

Re: Bullshit

#82

Post by jlees »

padolsey wrote: post #58
nl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that is Bullshit. Yes, Google makes money from their advertising. But Google does things that directly limit their ability to make money from advertising, when those decisons are in the interest of consumers. Take the whole design and UX of Chrome. There are many, many ways Google could have changed the design to make more money from it, and yet they haven't because they aren't in the interests of the users. Addi…

Also, could you provide an example of where advertising improves the user experience?

In today's heavily SEOd world, sometimes the AdWords ads are actually more helpful than the first 10 results. It's always a sad moment when that happens, but in certain verticals it's becoming almost inevitable despite everyone's best efforts.

An example (there are probably many better): I was looking for spas in London the other day, and a lot of the results seemed pretty dodgy - tantric therapy? no thanks! - but the ads for Groupon and competing services reminded me that I might be able to get a good daily deal and led me to explore quite a few options that weren't in the search results.

Disclaimer: I work for Google, but not on any advertising-related products (unless you want to take the stand that every Google product is advertising-related; thought I'd head off that reply in advance).

Re: Bullshit

#83

Post by Joeri »

potatolicious wrote: post #59
jemfinch wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A really long time"? Seriously--I know it's been a busy year--but the nine months (from February 2011 to November 2011) during which Android was being used in certain tablets without being open sourced hardly qualifies as "a really long time", especially in comparison to operating systems which have never been open.

I'm not sure how your'e able to say nine months isn't a long time (especially in this industry!) with a straight face. Also, I subscribe to a pretty liberal interpretation of "open source", and "source will be downloadable at an undetermined date in the future, if we feel like it" really doesn't qualify. There is, of course, the colloquial expectation of open - the implication that Google has never shied away from is…

For me an open platform is one that can be used, maintained and extended in ways the original platform owner actively disapproves of. Android fits that description, because you can in fact fork it and do what you want, even if its anti-google (like the kindle fire).

I consider android similar to x.org when it was called xfree86, and oo.o before it became libreoffice. It's definitely open source, but it remains to be seen whether the project will develop an open culture. If not, a hostile fork will happen at some point.

Re: Bullshit

#84

Post by andybak »

rfergie wrote: post #79
Pheter wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it works, which is why they do it.

I work with some brands on trying to measure this and in many cases I'm not sure it does work. The typical process works like this: 1. Brand creates facebook page 2. People who really, really love the brand connect with the page. 3. The brand observes that people who have connected with them on social media are excellent customers. 4. The brand tries to increase the number of connected users by offering promotions an…

I can see myself keeping a copy of this post to show to clients for years to come. Well done for crystallising something I've been floundering to put into words.

Re: Bullshit

#85

Post by Joeri »

nostromo wrote: post #18

With Apple, I'm the customer, not a marketer. This makes me comfortable with our relationship. I don't really care about Ping or app store approval policies, so, meh... With Google, I can see their ability to become a shady company pretty easily, but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. Bing isn't so bad you know. But Facebook knows so much about me, and the network effects are so strong -- this is the…

With google i feel like a data funnel, that's true. But with apple i feel like a money funnel. Apple always manages to make me spend more than expected. Their products are deliberately engineered to make it painful to seek affordable alternatives when you need new parts.

Re: Bullshit

#86

Post by dasil003 »

padolsey wrote: post #58
nl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that is Bullshit. Yes, Google makes money from their advertising. But Google does things that directly limit their ability to make money from advertising, when those decisons are in the interest of consumers. Take the whole design and UX of Chrome. There are many, many ways Google could have changed the design to make more money from it, and yet they haven't because they aren't in the interests of the users. Addi…

Also, could you provide an example of where advertising improves the user experience?

It improves the user experience by allowing amazing free services to exist.

You're being entirely too cynical about this. Yes the profit motive exists for corporations. So what? It exists for individuals too. Do you only do volunteer work because anything else would be selling out?

Seeking a profit does not imply moral bankruptcy. This sort of thinking is a knee-jerk reaction to the de-humanization of commerce and interaction via the internet and call centers. But don't forget that companies are still made up of people, and it's still possible to have a great relationship with a company, even a very large one. Granted, Google is one of the worst in this regard, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: Bullshit

#87

Post by bhrgunatha »

nostromo wrote: post #18

With Apple, I'm the customer, not a marketer. This makes me comfortable with our relationship. I don't really care about Ping or app store approval policies, so, meh... With Google, I can see their ability to become a shady company pretty easily, but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. Bing isn't so bad you know. But Facebook knows so much about me, and the network effects are so strong -- this is the…

I'm deleting my facebook account tomorrow. I dumped all my data already and gave notice to my friends.

I'd rather be cut-off than have to pay their price; they've proven time and time again how little regard they have for your privacy. Every slight change facebook makes means re-evaluating all of the privacy settings and other configurations to re-assess what extra information is being leaked without warning or approval.

Re: Bullshit

#88

Post by Joeri »

muyuu wrote: post #51

I disagree about the last line, not "everyone" has their bullshit. These 3 do have and spread massive amounts of bullshit, however.

I've never met a person that didn't have some level of bullshit going on. We all do it, so by extensions all our group efforts end up doing it. The book "why we make mistakes" has a good explanation based on how our mind works why it's part of the human experience to peddle a load of crock.

Re: Bullshit

#89

Post by pandeiro »

jlees wrote: post #82
padolsey wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, could you provide an example of where advertising improves the user experience?

In today's heavily SEOd world, sometimes the AdWords ads are actually more helpful than the first 10 results. It's always a sad moment when that happens, but in certain verticals it's becoming almost inevitable despite everyone's best efforts. An example (there are probably many better): I was looking for spas in London the other day, and a lot of the results seemed pretty dodgy - tantric therapy? no thanks! - but th…

Similarly with health-related queries. When you have a serious problem, you're after any kind of information that might help. In my personal case, several of the ads returned more interesting info than the first few pages of algorithm-ranked results.
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