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British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

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Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#21

Post by wellthatsawrap2 »

laserdancepony wrote: post #18
gsatic wrote: post #8

Can fascism produce colonialism tomorrow? I mean just look at the defense of Ukraine. The west has had a whole year and not even been able to raise one Brigade worth of troops. Hypothetically if Ukraine collapses anything is possible.

> The west has had a whole year and not even been able to raise one Brigade worth of troops. Yes, most certainly this was the entire point of the elaborate weapon delivery schemes. To not escalate this to a world war by sending in NATO forces.

Just get it close as possible to a world war.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#22

Post by n1b0m »

jl6 wrote: post #10

So the 100M figure comes from an excess deaths analysis. Let’s assume it’s accurate. It’s an indirect indicator. What was the direct mechanism that caused all those deaths?

Famine was a factor

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_major_famines_in...

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#23

Post by gsatic »

laserdancepony wrote: post #18
gsatic wrote: post #8

Can fascism produce colonialism tomorrow? I mean just look at the defense of Ukraine. The west has had a whole year and not even been able to raise one Brigade worth of troops. Hypothetically if Ukraine collapses anything is possible.

> The west has had a whole year and not even been able to raise one Brigade worth of troops. Yes, most certainly this was the entire point of the elaborate weapon delivery schemes. To not escalate this to a world war by sending in NATO forces.

Doesn't look like it's working. They have lost half their energy infra. And NATO did announce they were going to raise troops mid year. Hasn't happened afaik, cuz the members don't agree on contributing troops.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#24

Post by stevezsa8 »

benj111 wrote: post #19
stevezsa8 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been a lot of studies done on racism in the UK. Basically a victim is less likely to be punched in the face as compared to the past, but racism shows up in school grading, job finding success, hospital treatment, justice system etc... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/01/more-than-1200... https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/15/job-discrimina... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/f…

>One black Caribbean lecturer in the south-west of England told researchers: “I drive a nice car and one member of staff asked me if I was a drug dealer, because how else could I afford [it]?” Well this is the first example I got to and it doesn't seem racist to me. Or am I racist for taking the Mick out of my friends white BMW???

I have a friend who is brown, he told me this happened at his work...

Another colleague had made a joke where the punchline was something about my brown friend being detained by cops. So my friend was saying how it was driving him insane how often jokes would centre on scenarios of him being chased by cops or being a thief or whatever. The colleague pulls the "jokes are jokes, there's no hidden meanings or racism at play" Two or three other developers could overhear the conversation. 30mins later the IT guy came in and asked my friend if he'd stolen any GPUs from the office for bitcoin mining.

I feel the key here is... if a person says they're being victimised by something, whether it be racism or something else. We should strive to reduce this kind of hassling.

Imagine if our significant-other was constantly humiliated by work colleagues for being short or fat or some such... I'm sure most people would be upset.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#25

Post by colinb »

stevezsa8 wrote: post #15
colinb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to where? I have no dog in this fight. I'm not British. I don't live in Britain. I am certain that racism exists in Britain. But I don't think I've been anywhere that racism doesn't exist. More to the point, I don't think I've been anywhere with less racism than Britain. I've been to every continent but South America and Antartica. Perhaps Brazil is the utopian ideal you're using as a baseline? I saw racism…

There's been a lot of studies done on racism in the UK. Basically a victim is less likely to be punched in the face as compared to the past, but racism shows up in school grading, job finding success, hospital treatment, justice system etc... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/01/more-than-1200... https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/dec/15/job-discrimina... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/28/f…

I believe you. There are racists in Britain. There are all manner of bigots there. Between people who thought I was fair game for being Irish (I've heard all the potato jokes I promise) to those who don't like me for being Jewish, I fully believe there are bigots.

But again, racist compared to what? Do you have an example of a much less racist society? I.e. I'm not claiming it's ok. But the phrasing 'deeply racist' irritates me. It's a fine way to dismiss everything good about the place.

That said, some of the recent stuff in the Graun about black school children being strip searched is enough to make your blood boil.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#26

Post by benj111 »

stevezsa8 wrote: post #24
benj111 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One black Caribbean lecturer in the south-west of England told researchers: “I drive a nice car and one member of staff asked me if I was a drug dealer, because how else could I afford [it]?” Well this is the first example I got to and it doesn't seem racist to me. Or am I racist for taking the Mick out of my friends white BMW???

I have a friend who is brown, he told me this happened at his work... Another colleague had made a joke where the punchline was something about my brown friend being detained by cops. So my friend was saying how it was driving him insane how often jokes would centre on scenarios of him being chased by cops or being a thief or whatever. The colleague pulls the "jokes are jokes, there's no hidden meanings or racism at…

I don't deny it's possibly racist. But to me it seems more motivated by the car.

And in the absence of further background I don't think it reasonable to assume racism.

Yes you're right, I don't think it's reasonable to make people feel uncomfortable, but I've had people make me feel uncomfortable and that isn't racism.

People take the piss out of me for being skinny, the example you give seems to be in the same ballpark. Labeling this kind of thing as racism just devalues the term.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#27

Post by yucky »

gsatic wrote: post #23
laserdancepony wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The west has had a whole year and not even been able to raise one Brigade worth of troops. Yes, most certainly this was the entire point of the elaborate weapon delivery schemes. To not escalate this to a world war by sending in NATO forces.

Doesn't look like it's working. They have lost half their energy infra. And NATO did announce they were going to raise troops mid year. Hasn't happened afaik, cuz the members don't agree on contributing troops.

   > Doesn't look like it's working.
If it weren't working Russia would have steamrolled Ukraine in a week. Agree or disagree with the policy, but the US is threading the needle between giving Ukraine enough support to keep Russia from winning quickly and decisively, while not putting troops on the ground in a direct fight with Russia which would cause World War 3.

If that is indeed the goal, it has worked thus far. I disagree that this is a wise path, but it's their stated strategy.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#29

Post by jemmyw »

wellthatsawrap2 wrote: post #20
jemmyw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I certainly wish we in the west would do more for Ukraine, "not one brigade" is a silly thing to say. We'd have to be all in if we went in with ground troops. Personally I'd like to see us go all in with aircraft and destroy every last bit of Russian hardware in Ukraine territory, but I've no idea if that's realistic or possible.

Why they are not our allies? What is so great about Ukraine?

The US, UK and Russia did have a security guarantee with Ukraine in return for them giving up the nuclear weapons they had under the Soviet union.

Ukraine has strongly indicated they want to join the EU and NATO and have moved towards a more democratic government (with corruption problems, but some western allies also have corruption). Self serving as that might be they are, for all intents and purposes, our allies. And they are rather strategically positioned.

And then we also don't like one country systematically attacking the civilians and civilian infrastructure of another country. There are various agreements about rules of engagement, not annexing within agreed upon borders etc.

In answer to your question then: nothing, there's nothing special about Ukraine. That's the point.

Re: British empire killed 165M Indians in 40 years: How colonialism inspired fascism

#30

Post by captn3m0 »

g42gregory wrote: post #5

I am beginning to understand the origins on the current trend in India of being independent from Western policies and wanting to determine its own destiny. Initially, I was quite surprised to see that, given the enormous pressure to conform, but I guess things like this may explain Indian government's reluctance to go along. Also, perhaps the long-standing support for its not so friendly neighbor.

It’s not a recent trend: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_the_Non-Aligned_Mo...

The current trend is mixing it with a big dose of nationalism.

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