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Bullshit

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Re: Bullshit

#31

Post by jemfinch »

nailer wrote: post #24
veidr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all bullshit except the 'Android is open' thing. That's just a plain fucking fact. Despite the incessant barrage of snarky 'open' jokes from professional Apple frother John Gruber (typically redeemed somewhat by being funny) and M.G. "Mini-Gruber" Siegler (not so much), you can go download the fucking source code : http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Sure, tons of manufacturers will sell you jun…

Except for a really long time, ie between Android 2.x and 4, you couldn't download the source code. Edit: why is that being downvoted? It's a fact. HN can be a strange beast at times.

"A really long time"?

Seriously--I know it's been a busy year--but the nine months (from February 2011 to November 2011) during which Android was being used in certain tablets without being open sourced hardly qualifies as "a really long time", especially in comparison to operating systems which have never been open.

Re: Bullshit

#32

Post by veidr »

smokinn wrote: post #3

I would like to see a list of Amazon's bullshit.

Kindle Fire is great for reading.

Kindle Fire is great for watching movies.

Kindle Fire is great for browsing the web.

Re: Bullshit

#33

Post by arctangent »

> Facebook: "Our users want to interact with brands."

As distasteful as the hacker crowd may find it, this is probably a true statement.

A significant number of people (in the developed world) really do construct a large part of their personal identity by buying branded products from companies in order to signal something about themselves.

There's a section on this on the Wikipedia page for "Brand":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand#Attitude_branding_and_ico...

Re: Bullshit

#35

Post by zobzu »

Deeply agree on that list.

But there are some o at least one company that I'd actually trust more than others, and support, and that's Mozilla. Because there's no share holders. Because it's owned by non-profit. And because their track record is perfect so far. Everything's open. All the development is in the open, not just the code.

Everything's made for our best interest actually.

Re: Bullshit

#36

Post by jemfinch »

veidr wrote: post #30
nailer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for a really long time, ie between Android 2.x and 4, you couldn't download the source code. Edit: why is that being downvoted? It's a fact. HN can be a strange beast at times.

That's true. But still, Arment posted this today. Yesterday, daringfireball.net linked to a baseless Siegler snarkophany in the same vein. Etc etc etc. (Edit: No idea why your factual comment's getting downvoted, though. It'll hopefully get rectified as more people roll through this thread.)

It was being downvoted because it simply wasn't factual. Android was not closed "from 2.x to 4". Honeycomb (3.x) was first released on devices in February 2011 and its source was opened in November 2011. 9 months is not a "really long time".

Re: Bullshit

#37

Post by nl »

padolsey wrote: post #23
jacoblyles wrote: post #15

When I think of something being "bullshit", I think it is totally false. But many of these points are part-truths, not complete falsehoods. For example, Google tracks lots of personal data to make their products better. So the sentence "We solicit all of your personal information and track everything you do to make things better for you" is partially true. Of course, something is in it for Google too. When they add n…

The sentence from Google is a falsehood. It claims that the tracking is done for the user, and implies that this is their only intention. The actual truth is that Google only does what's "good" for the user as long as it improves their market position and/or makes them money. To have a position of "well, they do care about theirs users, even if it is to make money off of them" is intellectually dishonest because you'…

Now that is Bullshit.

Yes, Google makes money from their advertising.

But Google does things that directly limit their ability to make money from advertising, when those decisons are in the interest of consumers.

Take the whole design and UX of Chrome. There are many, many ways Google could have changed the design to make more money from it, and yet they haven't because they aren't in the interests of the users.

Additionally many (both at Google and elsewhere) believe (and can show evidence) that advertising can improve the user experience when it is done properly.

Companies (especially those with a share structure like Google's) can exist to care about more than just making money.

Re: Bullshit

#38

Post by jrockway »

riffraff wrote: post #26
nostromo wrote: post #18

With Apple, I'm the customer, not a marketer. This makes me comfortable with our relationship. I don't really care about Ping or app store approval policies, so, meh... With Google, I can see their ability to become a shady company pretty easily, but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. Bing isn't so bad you know. But Facebook knows so much about me, and the network effects are so strong -- this is the…

> but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. and personal email, and collaboration tools, and project mailing lists, and photo service, and maps service, and video hosting.. If you consider google as the search engine maybe not, but if you consider google the company the it's downright scary how hard it would be to get out of their grasp, IMO.

I don't think it would be that hard. You're one MX record change away from changing your mailhost without anyone ever knowing. You can continue using your gmail.com address without ever seeing ads by connecting with IMAP. You can get maps from anywhere, including Open Street Map. You can move your photos from Picassa to your own machine and to Flickr, if you desire. Google Chat is XMPP, so you can get a new "chat provider" and still talk to all your old contacts.

People use Google's services because they're excellent, not because they are locked in. Google makes it very easy to leave and take your data with you. Google contributes as much of their internal software to the Free Software community as they can. They do need to make money, but they're trying to do it the old fashioned way: make products people they like. And that's refreshing in a world where Microsoft makes their own email protocol and Apple sells computers that you can't hack.

This is not "downright scary". It's downright refreshing.

(Yes, advertising is an annoying business model, but I don't think it will last much longer for Google. People hate advertising and the feeling of being "told what to think". The good news is that Google's products will still work even if you have to pay a few bucks a month for them. Right now, that's not in Google's interests, because advertising money is the easiest money to make. But in a few years, I think we'll see less advertising and more customer focus, as advertisers realize that nobody wants their overpriced shit anymore.)

Re: Bullshit

#39

Post by freebird_uk »

nostromo wrote: post #18

With Apple, I'm the customer, not a marketer. This makes me comfortable with our relationship. I don't really care about Ping or app store approval policies, so, meh... With Google, I can see their ability to become a shady company pretty easily, but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. Bing isn't so bad you know. But Facebook knows so much about me, and the network effects are so strong -- this is the…

The problem with Google is you get tracked even if you don't use any of their services. Almost every single web page has one of Google Adsense, Analytics, Maps, ... all of which can build up a profile about you. To a degree this same effect is happening with FB as more and more sites add like buttons, though they remain less common than Google's array of libraries.

Re: Bullshit

#40

Post by razzaj »

I can think of this as well.

an "IT security company" : 1 - We secure your network 2 - Our site is down for maintenance

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