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Bullshit

marco.org

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Re: Bullshit

#21

Post by veidr »

droithomme wrote: post #10

Yes, it's true the things listed are bullshit. Yes, I guess we can take it or leave it. Sometimes the "take it or leave it" position ends up being presented in a way that it is framed that those of us who choose not to partake in the rape of our liberties are backwards luddites (non-facebook member here, also got their domains blocked to kill their insidious tracking). I hope that criticism of those who say "no" is n…

They're all bullshit except the 'Android is open' thing. That's just a plain fucking fact.

Despite the incessant barrage of snarky 'open' jokes from professional Apple frother John Gruber (typically redeemed somewhat by being funny) and M.G. "Mini-Gruber" Siegler (not so much), you can go download the fucking source code:

http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html

Sure, tons of manufacturers will sell you junky locked down Android-based phones (which they can do because... tada... it's open), you can also just go buy the unlocked phone that Google offers, and install whatever the hell you want on it.

And if you really want to root your phone and install your own build of the OS, it's basically as easy as ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA and boom-you're-done.

For any reasonable value of open, Android is. Claiming otherwise is just some weird kind of (apparently contagious) gobbledygook nonsense making the rounds among people emotionally invested in iOS. (Which I do use btw; although Android is open, it is still not good enough for me yet.)

Re: Bullshit

#22

Post by nailer »

jacoblyles wrote: post #15

When I think of something being "bullshit", I think it is totally false. But many of these points are part-truths, not complete falsehoods. For example, Google tracks lots of personal data to make their products better. So the sentence "We solicit all of your personal information and track everything you do to make things better for you" is partially true. Of course, something is in it for Google too. When they add n…

"For example, Google tracks lots of personal data to make their products better."

I think the post is discussing motivation.

If Google tracking you would make your life better, but somehow not help them target advertising, would they still do it?

Re: Bullshit

#23

Post by padolsey »

jacoblyles wrote: post #15

When I think of something being "bullshit", I think it is totally false. But many of these points are part-truths, not complete falsehoods. For example, Google tracks lots of personal data to make their products better. So the sentence "We solicit all of your personal information and track everything you do to make things better for you" is partially true. Of course, something is in it for Google too. When they add n…

The sentence from Google is a falsehood. It claims that the tracking is done for the user, and implies that this is their only intention. The actual truth is that Google only does what's "good" for the user as long as it improves their market position and/or makes them money. To have a position of "well, they do care about theirs users, even if it is to make money off of them" is intellectually dishonest because you're ignoring the implications of this -- that Google, in the end, has a drive to improve its own profits and market share. Obviously Google is made up of lots of different people and there are non-corporate wings that do actual good things, but this doesn't excuse the basic profit motive that must exist. Google doesn't care if you're getting the best experience from Facebook... they still want you to use Google+. They only want to target ads at me so that I click on them and they get more money.

Google cares about my online wellbeing as much as Colgate cares about my teeth.

Re: Bullshit

#24

Post by nailer »

veidr wrote: post #21
droithomme wrote: post #10

Yes, it's true the things listed are bullshit. Yes, I guess we can take it or leave it. Sometimes the "take it or leave it" position ends up being presented in a way that it is framed that those of us who choose not to partake in the rape of our liberties are backwards luddites (non-facebook member here, also got their domains blocked to kill their insidious tracking). I hope that criticism of those who say "no" is n…

They're all bullshit except the 'Android is open' thing. That's just a plain fucking fact. Despite the incessant barrage of snarky 'open' jokes from professional Apple frother John Gruber (typically redeemed somewhat by being funny) and M.G. "Mini-Gruber" Siegler (not so much), you can go download the fucking source code : http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Sure, tons of manufacturers will sell you jun…

Except for a really long time, ie between Android 2.x and 4, you couldn't download the source code.

Edit: why is that being downvoted? It's a fact. HN can be a strange beast at times.

Re: Bullshit

#25

Post by rickmb »

Apple's bullshit is strictly business. Google's and Facebook's bullshits affects peoples privacy, and, if they live in a country that values privacy, actually violates their fundamental rights.

Facebook and Google are engaged in open warfare against social values and legal restrictions that are prevalent in most of the world (especially outside the US), and the lies they tell about it can not simply be categorized as "bullshit" you can decide to tolerate on a individual basis.

Re: Bullshit

#26

Post by riffraff »

nostromo wrote: post #18

With Apple, I'm the customer, not a marketer. This makes me comfortable with our relationship. I don't really care about Ping or app store approval policies, so, meh... With Google, I can see their ability to become a shady company pretty easily, but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines. Bing isn't so bad you know. But Facebook knows so much about me, and the network effects are so strong -- this is the…

> but it is just too damn easy to switch search engines.

and personal email, and collaboration tools, and project mailing lists, and photo service, and maps service, and video hosting..

If you consider google as the search engine maybe not, but if you consider google the company the it's downright scary how hard it would be to get out of their grasp, IMO.

Re: Bullshit

#27

Post by [deleted] »

rmoriz wrote: post #2

There was a very good talk at 28c3 that should remember everyone, that Apple and Google are not working for the public interest (as some fans still believe) Partly NSFW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh07lA9EmIc or: http://ondemand.28c3.fem-net.de/events/4676.html

[deleted]

Re: Bullshit

#28

Post by ugh »

rmoriz wrote: post #2

There was a very good talk at 28c3 that should remember everyone, that Apple and Google are not working for the public interest (as some fans still believe) Partly NSFW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh07lA9EmIc or: http://ondemand.28c3.fem-net.de/events/4676.html

Those guys are funny! “They sell a product! How evil!”

Re: Bullshit

#29

Post by alpb »

Just wondering, why are we valuing this blog post that talks about a first world problem and brings no solution or anything critic or productive? Are we biased against Marco.org?

Re: Bullshit

#30

Post by veidr »

nailer wrote: post #24
veidr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all bullshit except the 'Android is open' thing. That's just a plain fucking fact. Despite the incessant barrage of snarky 'open' jokes from professional Apple frother John Gruber (typically redeemed somewhat by being funny) and M.G. "Mini-Gruber" Siegler (not so much), you can go download the fucking source code : http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html Sure, tons of manufacturers will sell you jun…

Except for a really long time, ie between Android 2.x and 4, you couldn't download the source code. Edit: why is that being downvoted? It's a fact. HN can be a strange beast at times.

That's true. But still, Arment posted this today. Yesterday, daringfireball.net linked to a baseless Siegler snarkophany in the same vein. Etc etc etc.

(Edit: No idea why your factual comment's getting downvoted, though. It'll hopefully get rectified as more people roll through this thread.)

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