Live data from Hacker News

Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

old.reddit.com

41–50 of 288 posts

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#41
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true, native Linux games are a much harder sell for publishers because the proportion of users is just too low.

Hence why Valve should make the needful to change that, instead of "emulating" Windows.

Think embrace extend and extinguish...in reverse!

1. Make wine really really good.

2. Start adding Linux-only features.

hehehe

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News…

You should check out the economist, you’d be surprised it’s not all economics! Also those gosh darn New York Times newspapers don’t solely focus on NYC. Wtf! Don’t judge a book by the literal interpretation of its title?

Strange, I could have sworn that 99% of the things posted here are news and commentary on news.

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#43

Somebody needs to step up to save Clang now that Google has more or less abandoned it.

Clang will be fine. It's based on LLVM, which will be actively maintained for as long as Rust exists, and Apple relies on Clang's functionality for pretty much all of their modern tooling. There's enough stakeholders to keep things moving smoothly, at least as far as I can tell.

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#44
post #10

Linus at DebConf 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=310&v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&feature=yo... >I’m on a record saying, that maybe Valve will actually save the Linux desktop. And it’s actually not because I think games are important! I don't care, I don't play games. I think some people do, so games maybe important. But the really important issue is I guarantee you Valve will not make 15 different binaries. And I also guarant…

Unless we’re talking about embedded systems (and most of the time, not even then I’d guess for portable gaming devices for example), what is the actual drawback of these “huge” binaries?

Wasn’t the reason to separate binaries and libraries in the first place to conserve disk space? They are then clearly versioned to signal that you can’t expect just any version of the library to work with the program you wrote.

The trade-off in using more disk to contain “an application” to “a binary” seems fine to me, if you’re not sacrificing anything else.

The only drawback I can think of is that it makes very minor patches, like security fixes, to the library impossible, which is a nice thing to have I guess, but on the other hand you’re now giving the library maintainer the capability to crash your application, and since that would presumably go through some kind of review and rebuild of the application in the first place to avoid crashes against the new library code, why does it matter if the lib is a part of the actual binary or not?

Is it really down to nothing but bandwidth and disk usage, or am I missing something here? Because if it is, and “blob binaries” becomes the norm, I’m sure you could still figure out partial patches somehow to conserve bandwidth and IO, while still keeping the binary essentially a built monolith.

Maybe one argument is that abandoned programs can still be “patched” in a way because a library it depends on fixes an issue that library was responsible for, but doesn’t that seem pretty risky to begin with to run software that is no longer being patched?

Indeed what constitutes “software” just seems to be multiple pieces in one case, and one piece in the other, no?

The biggest case against “vendoring”, which in my mind is similar to “huge” binaries, that I can think of at least is that it gives developers a false sense of security to not have to think about keeping libraries up to date: but aren’t they already equally able to be sloppy about this when the libs are separate?

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#45
post #4

I bought Steam games and a Steam Deck just to support Valve... and I'm not really a gamer. However, the Deck has turned out to be a pretty good computing device.

I was thinking of doing this - how do you like it? How's coding on it?

Doable on the device itself (Although I wouldn't bother without at least an external keyboard).

Full KDE desktop based on Arch (/ is read-only by default, but this can be disabled)

it Really shines when plugged into external monitors/dock. In particular, I have a couple USB-C displays that provide usb-hubs - I plug a single usb-c cable into the top of the thing and have a great little mini-workstation machine.

Does 4k displays just fine and is very responsive for the size. It's basically replaced the linux laptop I would drag along on trips. If I need a workstation it suffices, and I can plug it into hotel room tvs really easily to watch whatever I want.

Basically - hard to argue with the value proposition given it only costs $500 and I get a great little portable workstation. That fact that it does an excellent job with games is just cream on top.

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#46
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking of doing this - how do you like it? How's coding on it?

I keep it docked (mostly) and it works great. My ONLY beef is that the AMD drivers do not work 100% with Blender so you don't get the accelerated Cycles rendering. Otherwise, it is great.

That's interesting. I'm no expert on the Steam Deck, but I would have expected it to work. Do you have any more details about the problem?

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#47
post #35
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't play games, I think some people do." Multi-billion dollar industry raking in higher profits than Hollywood and that at this point is an unregulated online casino for teens. Yeah, some people do...

Well, yeah. His comic timing’s not the best but I think that was meant to be the joke.

Yes, very dry, if not awkward, humor. I actually think Linus is quite funny in most of his interviews.

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#48
post #44
post #10

Linus at DebConf 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=310&v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&feature=yo... >I’m on a record saying, that maybe Valve will actually save the Linux desktop. And it’s actually not because I think games are important! I don't care, I don't play games. I think some people do, so games maybe important. But the really important issue is I guarantee you Valve will not make 15 different binaries. And I also guarant…

Unless we’re talking about embedded systems (and most of the time, not even then I’d guess for portable gaming devices for example), what is the actual drawback of these “huge” binaries? Wasn’t the reason to separate binaries and libraries in the first place to conserve disk space? They are then clearly versioned to signal that you can’t expect just any version of the library to work with the program you wrote. The t…

> what is the actual drawback of these “huge” binaries?

The problem isn’t size. The problem is that with static linking it gets significantly more difficult to patch security vulnerabilities, because with dynamic linking, the vuln is gone once the underlying library is updated, however this wouldn’t happen with static linking.

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#49
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence why Valve should make the needful to change that, instead of "emulating" Windows.

Think embrace extend and extinguish...in reverse! 1. Make wine really really good. 2. Start adding Linux-only features. hehehe

Those Linux only features don't matter because games are targeting Win32.

Re: Valve is paying open-source developers to work on Proton, Mesa, and more

#50
post #10

Linus at DebConf 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=310&v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&feature=yo... >I’m on a record saying, that maybe Valve will actually save the Linux desktop. And it’s actually not because I think games are important! I don't care, I don't play games. I think some people do, so games maybe important. But the really important issue is I guarantee you Valve will not make 15 different binaries. And I also guarant…

Id rather have static binaries than a flatpak/snap for "universal distribution", personally.

Either static or dynamic is fine, package management has to be solved at another layer a la Nix.
Post reply on HN